Things That Cause Over The Top

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Paul Wilson is the creator of Swing Machine Golf and founder of Ignition Golf. Paul's golf swing technique is based on the Iron Byron swing machine. YouTube Channels: Paul Wilson Golf and Ignition Golf Tips. Please Join me on Google+

20 Responses to “Things That Cause Over The Top”

  1. Hi Paul,

    Great video. I was about to send a query as to why I still have a slight pull despite working hard on hips first.
    It is now clear that I still have a problem with moving to the front foot too quickly .It is uncanny how often your videos are exactly what I need at the time.
    cheers

    • Ian,

      Glad you liked it. There are cures in the Dashbaord too. Just check there if you every have problems in the future.

  2. This is an excellent lesson ,Paul.There’s everything one should know to pull off a good shot .As for THE head ,yes it does move ,but I endeavor to minimize THE move and stay THE More ” centered ” I CAN .THE champions I Watch in THE major Tour Opens don’t move That much .Maybe PHIL MICKELSON moves More his head than HENRIK STENSON ,RORY Mc ILROY or DUSTIN JOHNSON ,but I don’t Like That much is Driver swing ,I am OF opinion hé moves too much!

    • Raymond,

      Tour average is 3.6 inches of head movement. Jim Mclean did an article in July 2001 where he measured their heads. I still have it. Tiger at his best moved it 5″.

  3. Pail my problem is my hip turn is too quick and I either get stuck with a big push or I come over the top with a flip to catch up. This is a pull hook.
    Doesn’t happen all the times but when it doesn’t in the trees.
    I’m trying to get club more in front on downswing but sometimes powerless arms has the dragging behind my hip turn. I find it tough slowing down my hip turn. Any ideas really appreciated. Thanks

  4. Coach my problem is too much hands.
    You are saying let it flow but that really brings too much variables into swing.
    I spent a while on range today and basically pulled my left hand to release at my left thigh.
    Worked great on irons as ball flight more piercing and better distance which was straight.
    Went to driver and couldn’t get that same sensation.

    Turning my hands over to duplicate what your saying doesn’t it cause a crap shoot?

    Trying to understand. I know what it is like to get stuck but rolling my hands confuses it.

    Sorry Paul. My problem.

  5. December 1, 2017

    PatrickBryan

    Paul,

    I have found this issue of coming over the top a very difficult one to fix. I hit a lot of pulls and pull slices and as a result, I’m a bogey golfer. I know if I fixed this issue my game would improve dramatically. So, you made a comment in the video about hanging your upper body back on an angle so that the club can move down the line through the swing plane. This makes perfect sense but when I implement this on the range, I am chunking it more often. So my question is, is that part of the normal learning process and it will go away with more practice, or is there something you’d suggest I also work on? I know it’s difficult without seeing my swing but your help is much appreciated!

    Thanks,

    Patrick

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      December 1, 2017

      Paul Wilson

      Patrick,

      Yes, that is part of learning it. You are trying to change the path not hit perfect shots. Too many people would hit a few fat shots and stop working on it. This is the person trying to hit perfect shots. Like I said, you are not trying to hit perfect shots. You are working on fixing the path which is a piece of the swing not the whole swing. So keep doing it. Tee up your ball just do easy swings. At home every night just do tons of practice swings. In a week or so this should be fixed. Now, as you do this fat shots aren’t the only problem. You will hit pushes and push fades as well. These would be good flaws too telling you that you are attacking from the inside. To get the ball online you just go back to the touch the legs position. This creates more rotation which stops you from hanging back too much getting to much tilt.

      This tip applies:

      Stop Fat Shots When Working On Moving Your Head: https://ignitiongolf.com/fat-shots-moving-your-head/

  6. Paul (excuse the different topic)
    Problem – hitting fat shots (esp driver, but all clubs), and ‘drop-kick’ on shots. Exclude lifting back foot as solution (that is done). Cause appears to be hands behind ball at impact. Should I move hands forward of ball at set-up, or just try to get shoulders moving forward a bit earlier? Or move ball back in stance? I’m definitely getting the back heel well up. Straightening/stiffening my arms/elbows has reduced, but not eliminated problem.
    Many thanks, Brian

    • Brian,

      Your body is too tilted behind the ball at impact. The lifting of the heel stops you from hanging back too much. You need to turn more in the downswing. If you are turning you reduce the tilt. You can also be coming of the back heel with too much weight on the toe. If so, you would still have too much weight on the back foot at impact. With driver you will drop kick if you overtilt because the club swings flatter. This is the telltale sign you are too tilted behind it as you hit the ball. I would think you are sliding and don’t get to my touch the legs position. You need to turn and touch the legs at the follow through.

      Here:

      Exactly How to Start the Downswing: https://ignitiongolf.com/lead-knee-back/

      Here you go:

      Drop Kick: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-drop-kick/

  7. Hey Paul, when you were explaining the plane, your plane goes through your belt buckle or a little above. My arms are very long for my body size so my plane goes through below my belt buckle by quite a bit. Do I need to make an adjustment for that? This is something I’ve always wondered about. Thanks Brad

    • Brad,

      No, you need to do the setup for your body structure. This will change for all golfers. Just make sure you are doing my setup though.

  8. March 2, 2019

    JohnDailey

    Great summary lesson for this over the top problem but I think you said the divot should be slightly to the left (right handed golfer) but how does that tie to swinging in to out? I would think the divot should be slightly to the right.

  9. I would like to commend you on emphasizing doing practice swings above the ground. I think it takes a certain type of dedication and discipline to improve ones swing to do this since hitting balls is much more enjoyable. Even if many of the shots are not great, a few outstanding shots are exciting and uplifting (the psyc. people call this intermittent reinforcement). I totally agree you can’t learn anything about how you are swinging or how to improve your swing by just hitting balls. Once I started to make above ground swings and evaluate what was happening I was able to make dramatic improvements in my swing in a relatively short period. I too like many of the golfers who write comments had a lot of trouble mimicking my practice swings when doing my actual swing. This has improved a lot also since I started the above ground practice swings. There are also obvious rewards from engaging in a process that actually leads to learning how to swing the golf club better. Thee end result of this process will even be more enjoyable when one is hitting 8 out 10 good shots versus the previous 2 or 3 out of ten.

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      March 11, 2019

      Paul Wilson

      Paul,

      Thank you and I will keep saying it. It is all about consecutive repetitions. You need to do more of the new more than the old. As soon as you switch the numbers you can change things very quickly.

      Glad you are making the switch. I hear this all the time but if someone keeps doing the same thing they will get the same result. Got to at least try something different. You may not be good at it right away but you need to keep doing it. Too many people go right back to their old swing which does not work because they try something new and don’t get immediate results. Got to keep doing it.

  10. Paul,
    I’m at my wit’s end trying to cure my over the top swing when I’m actually hitting a ball during a round of golf. I’ve watched every video you’ve put out on this topic and have practiced literally every one of those tips for hours and days and weeks on end for 4 solid months this year. I’ll practice one tip over and over in the backyard in front of my patio window and then video tape some practice swings. I’ll watch the video and say, “YES!… The over the top is gone!”. Then after having worked on it with total focus, when I’m invited to golf I feel this is going to be the day where all that practice pays off. But I play terribly, even worse than ever. Then I’ll look at videos of my swing during the actual round of golf afterwards. The two practice swings I take before stepping up to the ball are fine. No over the top. I can see that my hips turn, my club drops down on an inside to outside path, and my club goes down the line and reappears over my left shoulder and touches the head. Then I finally step up to the ball, coil and get into a nice top of the backswing position. From that point on, I can’t even pause the video fast enough to figure out how in the world my club went from the top of the backswing to instantly being in front of my face and cutting across to the left in a nanosecond! It’s like a totally different person took over my body! It looks nothing like my practice swings. I still get to the touch the head somehow but my arms not only never dropped and stayed back like they do in my practice swings, I can’t even hit pause before they’re in front of my body they moved so fast. I can tell though that my arms stayed up and turned right away along with my shoulders so I look hunched over as if I have no room to stretch out my arms on line during the follow through and the club instantly cuts to the left and comes out by my side instead of up by my left shoulder. I don’t even know how it’s physically possible for my arms to move that fast let alone for me to somehow have maneuvered them to make any contact with the ball things are so out of position. Then I’ll watch more over the top fix videos on the site and practice that new thought over and over again. Practice swing videos again look great. Next time on the course, though, same thing happens where the practice swings are fine but NIGHTMARE when I actually hit the ball. Despite all my hours and hours and days and weeks and months of practicing to fix this OTT and saying “touch the legs” right before I switch to the downswing, everything goes out the window when I step up to a real ball. I get to the top of the backswing, pause to think switch to the hips/legs, but the swing is over (and horrible!) before I know it. The only thing keeping me from quitting the game is stubborn determination and the fact that I’m actually happy right now with my pitching and chipping and even my putting. But my full swings to get me there are a living nightmare that now put me in panic mode. Is there a physical item/training aid that might help me force my hands to stay back and drop down that will make the inside to outside club path movement stick in my brain and muscle memory? I’ve stuck a post in the ground at the same angle as my club for practice swings at home sometimes, and again that works during practice, but nothing at all so far is translating to when I actually step up to a ball on the course. Or is there one tip over all others that you think I should do over and over and over again before even trying to golf on course again? The good thing is that I understand and can explain the concepts of the body swing and various tips on ignition golf to myself and others, and have taught that information to my nephews and brother who have improved greatly the last two years from it. I, myself, however, somehow can’t translate my practice swings and knowing what to do into my actual swing when hitting full shots on the course. I work on hinge/unhinge all the time and have no problem with having loose wrists. I can coil and touch the legs. I always get to the touch the head position. But I cannot for the life of me get rid of this over the top, outside in, cut across to the left, shoulders turning, club staying up instead of falling from gravity… oh, I just don’t know what to do at this point. I swear I’m not thinking about hitting with the arms at all but my arms must have a mind of their own. I feel like a total failure being unable to correct this after working on it so long. I worked on it all last year too and over the winter, but this spring I’ve really been working on it and thought I’d have it under control in time for the summer, but it’s just not cooperating with me on actual on course swings. I don’t know what to do next since nothing so far has made me able to hit my full swings like my practice swings. It’s sooooo frustrating to not be able to self correct this. Have you had other students have this problem making their on course real swings look like their at home practice swings? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    • Hello Jeremy, when you are going to the course you are trying to swing 100% and trying to hit great shots. When you take your swing from the range to the course you need to do this by yourself. You have 3 extra balls in your pocket. You swing no more than 50%. Hit a shot. If it’s not great you hit another and so on.

      In your case you are trying to get rid of swinging over the top. If so, any ball starting right would be a good shot right? Yes. This would be an inside out path. This is only half though. Once every ball started right you would then work on the release to get it to draw back (have you not seen the roll over drill?)

      So go the course by yourself as I suggested.

      If you have to play with others DO NOT pick distance targets. Pick something close or way in the distance as your target. Again, you are swinging no more than 50%.

      You can look at the back of the ball as you hit the ball. You can feel your whole body tilted way from the target on the way down. You can swing to first base. You can try to hit the ground behind the ball.

      Watch this tip:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8FxSZSmKEw

      You could easily do that on the course.

      Again though, you cannot expect to hit it down the fairway or on the green just by getting the path. You need to release the club too (roll over drill I have tons of tips on that).

      So what I would do is the roll over a 3-5 times before hitting each shot. Then as I hit the shot I would be trying to hit it to first base or out to the right knowing if I release it it will draw back.

      As for the practice swings you see that you are fixing the path so what is the ONLY difference when you play? The ball. So quit hitting the ball. Do the movement at half speed KNOWING the ball will be hit.

      Everyone wants to hit. I am not hitting anything. I am doing a movement and the ball is hit. Big difference.

      You’ve got this. Just think differently.

      Paul

      • Thanks, Paul. I went out and played a little par 3 course yesterday doing 50% swings as suggested and saw a vast improvement in shots going straight. I did the roll over drill a few times before stepping up to the ball and used the tee in the ground 6 inches behind the ball trick and while I did hit a few fat shots as expected I did see some nice shots too. I asked my nephew to be on the lookout for my over the top and he was shocked too see an inside to outside swing path for once. I did club up a couple clubs more than usual to help me stay at 50%. Do you think that was a good idea? Or do you think I shouldn’t club up and swing at 50% and see if the ball still goes an okay distance? That’s one thing that definitely does make me feel a bit blue, knowing others are hitting 2-3 clubs less than I am and still hitting the ball farther than I do. I know I shouldn’t let that bother me since I’m trying to get rid of decades old habits of being over the top and flat footed at impact once and for all, but it doesn’t make me feel great that’s for sure. Just wish I could get this stuff to become my automatic new swing a lot faster than I’ve been able to without my old habits wanting to creep back in. Old swing habits sure are hard to get rid of.

        • Hello Jeremy, I love 50% when you play. This is what I have told people for years. Play by yourself with 3 balls in your pocket. Swing no more than 50%. I have tips on this and it is in The Body Swing.

          Clubbing up is fine for a while to tone you down and get you to swing slower. You are not doing this forever. You are doing this to get you to stop trying to hit it as hard as you can.

          As for getting rid of habits it’s a numbers game. This is why I want people doing practice swings every day if possible. If you only practice at the course you will do your old swing. I and you want to get rid of that swing. So … how are you going to get rid of it if you keep doing it? You need to do the new stuff more than the old. If so, you will not know how to do the old swing. So as I keep telling people stop hitting balls. You can hit a few to warm up that’s it. Play and work on your short game. Every day at home you are doing practice swings. You keep doing them so many times you know no other way to swing. See how it works?

          Sit there every night hinging and rehinging snapping your wrists. Then you hold the club (driver) at knee high and do swings listening to the swoosh of the club making it swoosh faster and faster. This is proof you are increasing clubhead speed. So I tell people to do that and what do they do? They do it a few times and quit. You need to do this stuff thousands of times. Again, if you keep doing your old swing though you will keep doing your old swing. So stop doing the old swing. Do the new more than the old and you will get it in no time.

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