Hi Paul, question about ball position during setup. Do you set the ball position squared up first then open or close your stance? Or do you open or close stance and keep ball position where it normally would be? It would seem that if you set ball position square and then change your stance the ball position would move slightly. I have tried fading or drawing the ball and most of the time I hit it straight to the direction I am swinging not where the face is pointing. Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work on the tips, they have been very helpful. I keep trying to get my friends to go to your method but they are very stubborn. They have seen the huge improvement I have made in my game and how consistent I am but they still won’t do it. I will keep trying, your method works and I hope to convert them.
I just set the face then take my normal ball position (depending on club) then open or close my stance for the shot I am trying to hit. So I do not drop it back or move it forward. Give this a try. If you need to move it a little I’m okay with that just not a lot.
Glad you like the tips and are improving. I appreciate the feedback. Your friends will come around once you start winning all their money.
Hi Paul. I have a little draw on most of my shots. I find it hard to fade but will practice this shot as shown on this tip. I rarely need to fade however, but more often then not, I find myself in a situation where I have to hit a draw around a tree with a wedge. The ball hardly draws and usually goes straight. Is there something different drawing a ball with a wedge? Thanks again for all your good work. Your a great intructor and I am having more fun golfing. Gerry
Yes, there is something different. Don’t draw a wedge. This club creates way too much backspin which will make it near impossible to draw. Just use a lower lofted club and grip down on it so you don’t hit it to hard. I don’t think I have ever drawn a wedge before.
If you hit a slight draw naturally please keep doing this. Most people don’t so it is very difficult for them. Learn the fade just in case you need it.
Dear Paul .I’ve tried for years to “work THE ball” THE way you show.Whatever I do THE ball goes where my stance is Orientated to ,One sole exception :shots off THE TEE with THE driver ,when I want to add some distance:I do exactly as you show:closed stance ,ball on THE TEE just in front of my big left toe ,and I”squeeze”some more yards from my driver.
But this never works on THE fairway:so ,when in difficulty ,after a poor shot .I just take my medecin and re center .
A Pro told that I should “Roll” m’y wrists to draw ,but this isn’t natural to me ,so I don’t .
I believe I am a hopeless case .
This is only if you have to work the ball. I would not be doing this on a regular basis. So if you cannot do it from the fairway don’t do it. I really don’t think you have to. I rarely hit these shots.
When you talk about opening or closing the stance how much degrees do you approximately consider? 30, 45? I feel I’m pointing too much to the right (or left) and I would appreciate to a slight indication to practice with the alignment sticks.
This depends how much you are trying to work the ball. Just experiment. Imagine there is a tree in front of you. If so you would have to aim enough right or left to avoid the tree.
Hi Paul. Thanks for the tip…Just a quick question. With that exercise you were talking about, where you have your normal set up, but just close your club face to draw it, and open you club face to fade it. When I stand square and close the club face the balls goes left and I am fine with that. My issue, is when I set up square, and do nothing but open my club face, the ball hardly fades or even starts off right? It will typically start left, Is the main reason for this, most likely I am initiating my swing with my arms, and the outside path overides the open club face?
I finally got the powerless arms concept to click in my swing. It hit me like a ton of bricks on a pitch shot (Hinge, belt buckle) and the effortless feeling is unmistakable and one of the best feelings a golfer could have. My irons are pure as hell now but off the tee i keep skying the ball, I imagine because im turning my arms off and the club is extending to the bottom of my swing arc, which is lower than the ball is being tee’d up. i tried fooling around with the tee height but the same result occurs. Whats the deal? thanks for everything my man!
Glad you are feeling it. If you are skying your woods your head is ahead of the ball through impact. You can find tips like this in the CURES section of the red nav bar. Here it is:
Hi Paul Can hit the fade shot with the technique above,when try the draw goes straight right no draw, even when setup feet square club close 50 percent hook, 50 percent go straight, my normal flight path is a slight push fade type very playable. i think i must still over top some with arms and not releasing wrist enough. the question i have is , will the drill of hitting balls by manually turning the wrist over early in the swing so balls hook 100 % of time make my release more consistant. playing in the mid 70s now, my big miss now is 2,3 shots a round pull hooks. should i work on release first or more lower body at start.
So this is telling us your wrists are way too tight. Also, hitting the push fade tells us this too. If you really want to get this you have to be loosening up the wrists and constantly rolling them manually until you are good at it. This is different. This is way looser than you have ever done. It takes trust and you are not good at it. Keep in mind this is only working on the spin. If so, you will hook it. You cannot see the hook as being bad. The hook is the whole goal for step one. Once you hook every shot then forget rolling it and work on using your body to hit your shots.
Hi Paul I totally agree will work on release thanks, one followup question , will the drill where you do that waist high follow through extending the arms out straight down the line, to get rid of chicken wing follow through. does this drill promote the correct wrist release automaticly without thinking abouit.
I was having trouble fading the ball consistently, and often would end up pulling it, with no fade. After even having an open stance and a weaker grip with an open club face, I would still pull this ball. I re-read one of your responses to me ( my question being whether swinging with your arms and
There is a lot to learn. This is why I keep telling people to not jump around. Pick an area of your swing and work on it until you have it. Once you get it you work on something else etc. All the while you are doing tons practice swings so use get used to the positions and keep the arms out of it.
I like the drill if it is allowing you to get the feeling. If so, keep doing it.
You only have one swing so to get it to draw (fake draw) you are just altering your setup. That is all there is too it. If you cannot hit these shots by altering your setup you need to keep working on your swing. As you swing gets better you then go back to trying these shots.
Hi Paul Been using your technique (powerless arms) for a year now making headway, normal shot is push fade,or tiny draw hit 50 ,50, so i normally aim for middle of green, problem i have is i hit75,80 percent decent shots, 20 percent of time can hit big push or big duck hooks, if i set up as you describe above for for fading ball and use this for all my shots should i eventually fade ball consistsntlly. i want to eliminate left side of course, hate the 2 way miss.my original ball flight was slice left to right over top slice move. got rid of slice but now have above problem. any sugestions, still working on the lower body drill.
It sounds like you are sliding. The slide makes the path swing too much from the inside. Tighten the wrists with this path and you will blow it right. If you roll it over it will duck hook. So I think you need to be working on the downswing and my touch the knees position. If you just try to fade it you will be push fading it. There are a few pros who do this successfully but I would rather you just fix the slide.
I am working hard on learning to draw the ball. I am having positive results with my iron but when it comes to my driver I am not getting the correct penetrating height when I draw it? Why is this so?
This is because you are de-lofting the club through impact. I would check your grip. The driver already has little loft on it anyway. Reduce it too much and you will not get it airborne (too low).
Also, check hand position at address and make sure you are not moving too much weight into the forward foot at you hit it.
I wouldn’t necessarily take more club if I was drawing it as I would be de-lofting the club. Plus, when I am hitting this type of shot I am thinking it is going to hit and roll due to the hook so I may even take 1 less club. The fade on the other hand would be determined by how much I am going to fade it. Big fade and I would take 1 more club.
My home course has a mix of left to right and right to left doglegs. Is the tip different for tee shots? I hate hitting a 3 iron on a fade tee shot just to have a 3 wood left to the green.
The link to “How to hit a fade” directs to Jeremy, your physio contributor. Incorrect link.
As you advise in other links, a slight fade is an easier and more consistent shot (re. Jack Nicklaus’ bread and butter, go to, shot) than the slight draw that everyone seems to want to perfect. So, I will be practicing how to fade. One question: Does not turning over the club/wrists (i.e. not releasing) help to fade the ball?
I am specifically thinking to use this for all shots from wedge to 7 iron where accuracy is more important than distance and side spin due to loft is not as relevant. These higher lofted clubs I consider scoring clubs and I want them to “fall” on the green without too much roll. From 6 iron through driver where distance is the focus, I would do the normal wrist roll over/release. Does this make sense?
Paul, your teaching and tips are the best, and your explanations are so easy to understand and implement. Thank you for helping me improve my understanding and my game over the last 1 1/2 years that I been with you.
Paul, I find that, especially for the draw shot, that I have trouble keeping the club closed and feeling comfortable during the swing. I end up opening again during impact most times. Any suggestions how to practice this effectively to get comfortable with the feel of a closed club face?
If you are trying to draw it you need a slightly strong grip and loose wrists as well as a slight slide in the downswing. This is why I don’t promote a draw.
So if you do want this shot shape the roll over drill need to be one of your most important drills. You need to do it constantly. Any tightness in your wrists and you will not get the draw spin. Here is the drill:
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31 Responses to “How To Perfect Drawing and Fading”
August 21, 2013
GeorgeNordhaugHi Paul, question about ball position during setup. Do you set the ball position squared up first then open or close your stance? Or do you open or close stance and keep ball position where it normally would be? It would seem that if you set ball position square and then change your stance the ball position would move slightly. I have tried fading or drawing the ball and most of the time I hit it straight to the direction I am swinging not where the face is pointing. Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work on the tips, they have been very helpful. I keep trying to get my friends to go to your method but they are very stubborn. They have seen the huge improvement I have made in my game and how consistent I am but they still won’t do it. I will keep trying, your method works and I hope to convert them.
August 22, 2013
Paul WilsonGeorge,
I just set the face then take my normal ball position (depending on club) then open or close my stance for the shot I am trying to hit. So I do not drop it back or move it forward. Give this a try. If you need to move it a little I’m okay with that just not a lot.
Glad you like the tips and are improving. I appreciate the feedback. Your friends will come around once you start winning all their money.
August 21, 2013
GerryCarriereHi Paul. I have a little draw on most of my shots. I find it hard to fade but will practice this shot as shown on this tip. I rarely need to fade however, but more often then not, I find myself in a situation where I have to hit a draw around a tree with a wedge. The ball hardly draws and usually goes straight. Is there something different drawing a ball with a wedge? Thanks again for all your good work. Your a great intructor and I am having more fun golfing. Gerry
August 22, 2013
Paul WilsonGerry,
Yes, there is something different. Don’t draw a wedge. This club creates way too much backspin which will make it near impossible to draw. Just use a lower lofted club and grip down on it so you don’t hit it to hard. I don’t think I have ever drawn a wedge before.
If you hit a slight draw naturally please keep doing this. Most people don’t so it is very difficult for them. Learn the fade just in case you need it.
Thanks for the ind words. I truly appreciate it.
August 21, 2013
RaymondCHASTELDear Paul .I’ve tried for years to “work THE ball” THE way you show.Whatever I do THE ball goes where my stance is Orientated to ,One sole exception :shots off THE TEE with THE driver ,when I want to add some distance:I do exactly as you show:closed stance ,ball on THE TEE just in front of my big left toe ,and I”squeeze”some more yards from my driver.
But this never works on THE fairway:so ,when in difficulty ,after a poor shot .I just take my medecin and re center .
A Pro told that I should “Roll” m’y wrists to draw ,but this isn’t natural to me ,so I don’t .
I believe I am a hopeless case .
August 22, 2013
Paul WilsonRaymond,
This is only if you have to work the ball. I would not be doing this on a regular basis. So if you cannot do it from the fairway don’t do it. I really don’t think you have to. I rarely hit these shots.
August 21, 2013
JoseCarcellerWhen you talk about opening or closing the stance how much degrees do you approximately consider? 30, 45? I feel I’m pointing too much to the right (or left) and I would appreciate to a slight indication to practice with the alignment sticks.
Thank you in advance
August 22, 2013
Paul WilsonJose,
This depends how much you are trying to work the ball. Just experiment. Imagine there is a tree in front of you. If so you would have to aim enough right or left to avoid the tree.
August 21, 2013
AndrewMahHi Paul. Thanks for the tip…Just a quick question. With that exercise you were talking about, where you have your normal set up, but just close your club face to draw it, and open you club face to fade it. When I stand square and close the club face the balls goes left and I am fine with that. My issue, is when I set up square, and do nothing but open my club face, the ball hardly fades or even starts off right? It will typically start left, Is the main reason for this, most likely I am initiating my swing with my arms, and the outside path overides the open club face?
thanks
Andrew
August 22, 2013
Paul WilsonAndrew,
Exactly. Your swing is already coming over the top. So before you work on these shots I would think you need to be working on your swing.
Watch:
Stop Coming Over the Top: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-stop-over-the-top/
Pull: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-pulled-shot
Pull 2 (expanding on it): https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-pulling
Remembering How Cure Pulled Shots: https://ignitiongolf.com/remembering-cure-pulled-shots/
August 23, 2013
JasonBostPaul,
Great stuff man.
I finally got the powerless arms concept to click in my swing. It hit me like a ton of bricks on a pitch shot (Hinge, belt buckle) and the effortless feeling is unmistakable and one of the best feelings a golfer could have. My irons are pure as hell now but off the tee i keep skying the ball, I imagine because im turning my arms off and the club is extending to the bottom of my swing arc, which is lower than the ball is being tee’d up. i tried fooling around with the tee height but the same result occurs. Whats the deal? thanks for everything my man!
August 23, 2013
Paul WilsonJason,
Glad you are feeling it. If you are skying your woods your head is ahead of the ball through impact. You can find tips like this in the CURES section of the red nav bar. Here it is:
Skying: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-skying
August 25, 2013
barrybowerHi Paul Can hit the fade shot with the technique above,when try the draw goes straight right no draw, even when setup feet square club close 50 percent hook, 50 percent go straight, my normal flight path is a slight push fade type very playable. i think i must still over top some with arms and not releasing wrist enough. the question i have is , will the drill of hitting balls by manually turning the wrist over early in the swing so balls hook 100 % of time make my release more consistant. playing in the mid 70s now, my big miss now is 2,3 shots a round pull hooks. should i work on release first or more lower body at start.
August 26, 2013
Paul WilsonBarry,
So this is telling us your wrists are way too tight. Also, hitting the push fade tells us this too. If you really want to get this you have to be loosening up the wrists and constantly rolling them manually until you are good at it. This is different. This is way looser than you have ever done. It takes trust and you are not good at it. Keep in mind this is only working on the spin. If so, you will hook it. You cannot see the hook as being bad. The hook is the whole goal for step one. Once you hook every shot then forget rolling it and work on using your body to hit your shots.
Drill – Smooth Wrist Release: https://ignitiongolf.com/smooth-wrist-release/
DRILL: Release and Rehinge: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-feel-release-rehinge
August 26, 2013
barrybowerHi Paul I totally agree will work on release thanks, one followup question , will the drill where you do that waist high follow through extending the arms out straight down the line, to get rid of chicken wing follow through. does this drill promote the correct wrist release automaticly without thinking abouit.
August 28, 2013
Paul WilsonBarry,
Yes, this drill would be a good one to because you cannot get to this position unless you release the club.
October 17, 2013
paulelliottPaul,
Am I correct in saying tee the ball down for fade and up for draw? (driver)
Also ball slightly forward in stance for fade?
Regards
October 17, 2013
Paul WilsonPaul,
These shots will occur when teeing it up and down because it creates flaws in your swing. I did a tip on it here:
Tee Height: https://ignitiongolf.com/tee-height
October 28, 2013
AndrewMahHi Paul
I was having trouble fading the ball consistently, and often would end up pulling it, with no fade. After even having an open stance and a weaker grip with an open club face, I would still pull this ball. I re-read one of your responses to me ( my question being whether swinging with your arms and
October 28, 2013
Paul WilsonAndrew,
There is a lot to learn. This is why I keep telling people to not jump around. Pick an area of your swing and work on it until you have it. Once you get it you work on something else etc. All the while you are doing tons practice swings so use get used to the positions and keep the arms out of it.
I like the drill if it is allowing you to get the feeling. If so, keep doing it.
You only have one swing so to get it to draw (fake draw) you are just altering your setup. That is all there is too it. If you cannot hit these shots by altering your setup you need to keep working on your swing. As you swing gets better you then go back to trying these shots.
March 8, 2014
barrybowerHi Paul Been using your technique (powerless arms) for a year now making headway, normal shot is push fade,or tiny draw hit 50 ,50, so i normally aim for middle of green, problem i have is i hit75,80 percent decent shots, 20 percent of time can hit big push or big duck hooks, if i set up as you describe above for for fading ball and use this for all my shots should i eventually fade ball consistsntlly. i want to eliminate left side of course, hate the 2 way miss.my original ball flight was slice left to right over top slice move. got rid of slice but now have above problem. any sugestions, still working on the lower body drill.
March 10, 2014
Paul WilsonBarry,
It sounds like you are sliding. The slide makes the path swing too much from the inside. Tighten the wrists with this path and you will blow it right. If you roll it over it will duck hook. So I think you need to be working on the downswing and my touch the knees position. If you just try to fade it you will be push fading it. There are a few pros who do this successfully but I would rather you just fix the slide.
Watch:
Hooking: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-hooking
Then:
Slide: https://ignitiongolf.com/cure-slide
You Better Check This Especially If You Slide: https://ignitiongolf.com/slide-turn-foot-out/
Easy Way To Cure A Slide: https://ignitiongolf.com/easy-way-cure-slide/
June 30, 2014
HermanKohHi Paul,
I am working hard on learning to draw the ball. I am having positive results with my iron but when it comes to my driver I am not getting the correct penetrating height when I draw it? Why is this so?
Thanks.
Herman
June 30, 2014
Paul WilsonHerman,
This is because you are de-lofting the club through impact. I would check your grip. The driver already has little loft on it anyway. Reduce it too much and you will not get it airborne (too low).
Also, check hand position at address and make sure you are not moving too much weight into the forward foot at you hit it.
This tip should help:
Hit Ball Higher: https://ignitiongolf.com/shot-hit-higher
March 11, 2018
StephenClutterPaul:
One quick question. Do you select more club when hitting a draw/fade when hitting to the green?
Steve
March 11, 2018
Paul WilsonSteve,
I wouldn’t necessarily take more club if I was drawing it as I would be de-lofting the club. Plus, when I am hitting this type of shot I am thinking it is going to hit and roll due to the hook so I may even take 1 less club. The fade on the other hand would be determined by how much I am going to fade it. Big fade and I would take 1 more club.
September 13, 2018
JimBenjaminMy home course has a mix of left to right and right to left doglegs. Is the tip different for tee shots? I hate hitting a 3 iron on a fade tee shot just to have a 3 wood left to the green.
September 16, 2018
Paul WilsonJim,
Yes, drawing and fading is the same for all clubs.
Here is how I do it:
The Fake Draw: https://ignitiongolf.com/the-fake-draw/
How To Hit A Fade: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-hit-a-fade/
April 13, 2019
MikeShannonThe link to “How to hit a fade” directs to Jeremy, your physio contributor. Incorrect link.
As you advise in other links, a slight fade is an easier and more consistent shot (re. Jack Nicklaus’ bread and butter, go to, shot) than the slight draw that everyone seems to want to perfect. So, I will be practicing how to fade. One question: Does not turning over the club/wrists (i.e. not releasing) help to fade the ball?
I am specifically thinking to use this for all shots from wedge to 7 iron where accuracy is more important than distance and side spin due to loft is not as relevant. These higher lofted clubs I consider scoring clubs and I want them to “fall” on the green without too much roll. From 6 iron through driver where distance is the focus, I would do the normal wrist roll over/release. Does this make sense?
Paul, your teaching and tips are the best, and your explanations are so easy to understand and implement. Thank you for helping me improve my understanding and my game over the last 1 1/2 years that I been with you.
June 6, 2019
JohnMeusePaul, I find that, especially for the draw shot, that I have trouble keeping the club closed and feeling comfortable during the swing. I end up opening again during impact most times. Any suggestions how to practice this effectively to get comfortable with the feel of a closed club face?
June 11, 2019
Paul WilsonJohn,
If you are trying to draw it you need a slightly strong grip and loose wrists as well as a slight slide in the downswing. This is why I don’t promote a draw.
How To Perfect Drawing and Fading: https://ignitiongolf.com/perfect-drawing-and-fading/
Should You Hit a Draw or a Fade?: https://ignitiongolf.com/hit-draw-fade/
The Real Draw: https://ignitiongolf.com/real-draw/
The Fake Draw: https://ignitiongolf.com/the-fake-draw/
So if you do want this shot shape the roll over drill need to be one of your most important drills. You need to do it constantly. Any tightness in your wrists and you will not get the draw spin. Here is the drill:
DRILL: 3 Ways To Roll It Over: https://ignitiongolf.com/3-ways-to-roll/
Roll Around The Stick: https://ignitiongolf.com/roll-around-stick/
Clarifying the Roll Over Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/clarifying-roll-drill
Another Reason To Do The Roll Over Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/another-reason-to-roll/
How Long Should You Do The Roll Over Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/roll-over-drill-how-long/
DRILL: Smooth Wrist Release: https://ignitiongolf.com/smooth-wrist-release/
Modified Roll Over Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/modified-roll-over-drill/