I’m the opposite! The Driver is the easiest club for me to hit. I wish I could use it on all the shots. It’s not that my iron shots are bad, but rather that the distance is not commensurate with the irons. I drive as far or farther that the guys I play with using the Driver. However I have to go 2 or 3 clubs lower when using the irons. For some reason I have major speed loss with the irons.
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
Paul I have a hitting are in my home where I hit balls made from cotton. I can take a full swing with a driver and it feels to me I am in line with what you teach. When I go to the range I cut the back swing short
I am at a loss to have the full swing on the range and golf course can you help.
Although the cotton balls sounds like a good idea you are still hitting something. The whole point of doing the practice swings at home is to not hit anything because there is nothing there to hit. With nothing there you should be focusing on mastering your swing positions.
Cutting your swing short when you go to hit a ball is yo HITTING. As you go back you are tightening your arms getting them ready to whack at it. So you need to change the thought. You are not hitting ANYTHING. You are doing a movement with a piece of metal in your hands. When you do this movement and you put a round piece of plastic in front of it, it will be hit. Right now you are trying to propel the round piece of plastic which will never work because you are never allowing the club to swing to Point B. You are making the ball Point B.
So you need to stop hitting the cotton. When you do your practice swings you need to be focused beyond the ball trying to master my follow through positions. Then when you put a ball in front of you, you are thinking of making the move to this follow through position. You do not care about the ball or where it goes.
Hi Paul
I have experienced exactly what you just explained about the driver. Not loading up with the driver plus having a new driver which fits my swing I am now confident and long and straight. The rest of my bag is usually no problem since following your method for about 18 months now.
So now I have a driver and lessons both of which suit me and my game.
Many Thanks
I have the same problem as Dave Shaffer (above) , I also have lost distance With the irions ! You have said something about hip speed earlier, but it seems that is have to be more than that. Many People say you have to ‘hit down’ With irons in order to squize tha ball away, but that is not what you teach , ao I Wonder that ther ust be something else.
You are already hitting at the ball and it is not working so why would I tell you to hit down at the ball? You hit down on the ball due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down on the ball. When you try to hit the ball you tighten your arms. When your arms tighten your forearm muscles contract thus causing them to shorten. If your arms when you hit the ball are shorter than the ones you had at address it is impossible to hit down.
So you need to not hit anything. This will allow the mass to stretch your arms out fully past impact. This coupled with your body tilt creates the descending blow.
Here is the reply I posted to others:
Dave,
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
….. said something about hip speed earlier, but it seems that it have to be more than that. Many people say you have to ‘hit down’ with irons in order to squize the ball away, but that is not what you teach , so I wonder about there could be something else which cause this poor distance with the irons ?
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
Hey Paul,
When I swing the driver and pretend it is my seven iron it works very well solid contact that I check on my tell tape and straight
down the middle. It is scary too see how far the ball will fly with as little effort possible.
However, I have a related problem with my driver. When I hit it slow and easy with a great lower body knee touch and hinge release with full finish off it goes but it rises early and keeps on rising and hangs in the sky which seems like forever. But when it comes down it plops dead around 180 – 200 yards out. No low steady lift and roll on impact no driver distance my 3 wood goes about the same distance and my 3 rescue often rolls past the driver.
I have tried lowering the tee also moving forward and backward still rises like a balloon?
Can you help. Using a 9.5 loft regular shaft Slider driver.
Perfect. I have replied to others basically telling them to do this. You only have one swing. If you cannot do it with all clubs you do not have one swing.
This excess spin happened to me for years. Then I go the right shaft for my swing and I never have that problem anymore. So I suggest getting professionally fitter b a fitter who has a Trackman. This will fix the problem.
Is there a directory or a referral list from Ignition Golf for club fitters? I am in New York and would like to find someone that can provide a quality evaluation. I understand that Bronson is in CA.
I have slowed my swing down with driver but sometimes when I am swinging slow I quit on shot. What can I focus on to stop me sometimes quitting on shot when swinging slow?
paul
I was originally taught to swing fast to get good distance. It worked until I started swinging my arms ahead of my body. I then found your passive arms method better but it was difficult holding my arms back at the top of the back swing. Finally, I began feeling the club head at the top of the back swing and conceptualized using my body to square the club to contact and release. I don’t know how articulate that is but it works for me.
Hi Paul;
If I could swing as easily as you do on this video & still hit it 200+ I’d be a very happy golfer. I’m not swinging my driver indoors due to space but am swinging constantly with an iron. Spring is a long way off & that really sucks. What is the average temperature in Vegas during the east coast winter? Have a great holiday!
So if I can do it why can’t you? If I were do a super human move I would say that you couldn’t do it. If I can swing less than you and hit it better than you I am doing it a different way than you. Just learn this different way. In doing so it will feel different but you will get used to it in no time. Then go farther with the legs and hips not the hands and arms.
Keep doing the indoor swings this is a great way to build your swing before next season. Focus on swinging easy and setting perfect positions. Just imagine if you started next season with a swing that looked like that of a tour pro. How god do you think you would play?
Throughout the winter it is usually mid 50’s with no humidity and no wind. This is a great time of year. We can get the odd day in the 40’s or even 30’s but this is rare.
Paul,
Strange as this may seem, I have always had the opposite problem: I look at that big, heavy head on my driver, and I find it easier to leave my arms out of things, and let my body whip the club head around. But when it comes to irons, especially long irons, I feel the club head is so small that I have to swing like crazy with my arms, in order to get the ball to go anyplace. Of course, the opposite is what usually happens.
This can certainly happen. Got to build a great swing and trust that it is going to allow the club to return to the ball. Maybe you see the club as mass as I said in a recent tip. Then see the physics that would allow it to swing to its widest arc every time. If the ball is at the end of the widest arc you should hit it consistently. The problem with long irons is everyone wants to hit the hard. When doing so they usually leave the face open. With long irons try swinging a little slower to allow the face to square. This should get you hitting it solidly so you can trust it. I did a tip here:
This is the sign of a chicken wing so you need to look for all of those tips. Just type what you are looking for in the search bar on the right side. If so, every tip I have done on that subject will come up. There is one in the Dashboard and the red nav bar on the original site.
The chicken wing causes the grip to fall behind the head thus adding loft.
Paul, just finished a two man scramble and we came in the money. I have had a problem with spraying my short and mid irons mostly pulling and pushing. I have started using my lower body to initiate the down swing, turning the hips then shoulders to the target. My iron shots have become crisp and on line…one problem though, i am consistently 1 to 2 irons short. I hit a 7 iron usually 150 yds. Now it’s between 135 to 140 yds. Any advice on how to get more didtance. I must say, this new swing really feels great and I don’t want to go back to hitting with my arms and hands.
Thanks,
You are not good at it so it is going to take some work. You need to drive the lower harder/faster while not trying to hit or help the ball. You need to follow this tip though:
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41 Responses to “Irons Good Driver Bad”
February 16, 2014
DAVESHAFFERHi Paul –
I’m the opposite! The Driver is the easiest club for me to hit. I wish I could use it on all the shots. It’s not that my iron shots are bad, but rather that the distance is not commensurate with the irons. I drive as far or farther that the guys I play with using the Driver. However I have to go 2 or 3 clubs lower when using the irons. For some reason I have major speed loss with the irons.
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonDave,
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
I think you have a few of video to watch:
Taller Setup: https://ignitiongolf.com/bartender-setup/
DRILL: Start High Then Gradually Lower: https://ignitiongolf.com/start-high-gradually-lower/
And:
Never Purposely Hit Down On The Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/never-hit-down/
Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/divot
February 18, 2014
DAVESHAFFEROK Paul, thanks. I’ll give it a try. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Dave
February 16, 2014
TIMADAMSPaul
me too good driver bad irons
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonTim,
Here is the reply to Dave:
Dave,
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
I think you have a few of video to watch:
Taller Setup: https://ignitiongolf.com/bartender-setup/
DRILL: Start High Then Gradually Lower: https://ignitiongolf.com/start-high-gradually-lower/
And:
Never Purposely Hit Down On The Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/never-hit-down/
Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/divot
February 17, 2014
BillyCrouchPaul I have a hitting are in my home where I hit balls made from cotton. I can take a full swing with a driver and it feels to me I am in line with what you teach. When I go to the range I cut the back swing short
I am at a loss to have the full swing on the range and golf course can you help.
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonBilly,
Although the cotton balls sounds like a good idea you are still hitting something. The whole point of doing the practice swings at home is to not hit anything because there is nothing there to hit. With nothing there you should be focusing on mastering your swing positions.
Cutting your swing short when you go to hit a ball is yo HITTING. As you go back you are tightening your arms getting them ready to whack at it. So you need to change the thought. You are not hitting ANYTHING. You are doing a movement with a piece of metal in your hands. When you do this movement and you put a round piece of plastic in front of it, it will be hit. Right now you are trying to propel the round piece of plastic which will never work because you are never allowing the club to swing to Point B. You are making the ball Point B.
So you need to stop hitting the cotton. When you do your practice swings you need to be focused beyond the ball trying to master my follow through positions. Then when you put a ball in front of you, you are thinking of making the move to this follow through position. You do not care about the ball or where it goes.
Watch:
Swing From Point A to Point B: https://ignitiongolf.com/point-a-to-point-b/
DRILL: Point A to Point B: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-point-a-to-point-b/
Swing Positions:
Uncoil 1: https://ignitiongolf.com/uncoil
Uncoil 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/uncoil-follow-up
Legs Touching: https://ignitiongolf.com/touch-knees
One Of The Secrets To The Golf Swing: https://ignitiongolf.com/secrets-to-golf-swing/
Hit, Hold and Check: https://ignitiongolf.com/hold-check-follow-through/
February 17, 2014
DavidCoombesHi Paul
I have experienced exactly what you just explained about the driver. Not loading up with the driver plus having a new driver which fits my swing I am now confident and long and straight. The rest of my bag is usually no problem since following your method for about 18 months now.
So now I have a driver and lessons both of which suit me and my game.
Many Thanks
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonDavid,
Very good. It sure is fun once you get driver going down the middle.
Keep up the good work.
February 17, 2014
JohnSteenHi Paul,
I have the same problem as Dave Shaffer (above) , I also have lost distance With the irions ! You have said something about hip speed earlier, but it seems that is have to be more than that. Many People say you have to ‘hit down’ With irons in order to squize tha ball away, but that is not what you teach , ao I Wonder that ther ust be something else.
John
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonJohn,
You are already hitting at the ball and it is not working so why would I tell you to hit down at the ball? You hit down on the ball due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down on the ball. When you try to hit the ball you tighten your arms. When your arms tighten your forearm muscles contract thus causing them to shorten. If your arms when you hit the ball are shorter than the ones you had at address it is impossible to hit down.
So you need to not hit anything. This will allow the mass to stretch your arms out fully past impact. This coupled with your body tilt creates the descending blow.
Here is the reply I posted to others:
Dave,
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
I think you have a few of video to watch:
Taller Setup: https://ignitiongolf.com/bartender-setup/
DRILL: Start High Then Gradually Lower: https://ignitiongolf.com/start-high-gradually-lower/
And:
Never Purposely Hit Down On The Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/never-hit-down/
Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/divot
February 17, 2014
JohnSteenSorry for the spelling error.
….. said something about hip speed earlier, but it seems that it have to be more than that. Many people say you have to ‘hit down’ with irons in order to squize the ball away, but that is not what you teach , so I wonder about there could be something else which cause this poor distance with the irons ?
John
February 17, 2014
ERIABBERAHi Paul
Thanks for the lesson.
The problem with me is that IRONS ‘INTIMIDATE’ ME.
I’am comfortable with woods. What can I do since irons are vital?
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonEriab,
Same reply to you as I posted to the others:
Dave,
Sounds like you are trying to hit down with your irons which you should never purposely do. This hitting down occurs due to the right fundamentals not because you are hitting down. I say you are hitting down because you are losing distance with these clubs. You should have one swing so it should be working with irons as well as driver. If it is not you are using a different swing. So focus on not hitting down. Keep the arms and wrists relaxed. Also, why not tee up a ball. Do some driver swings then immediately hit some irons applying this same feeling. Why not hold the iron in the air like it is a driver and get the feeling of your driver swing then lower the club to the ball and apply the very same feeling.
I think you have a few of video to watch:
Taller Setup: https://ignitiongolf.com/bartender-setup/
DRILL: Start High Then Gradually Lower: https://ignitiongolf.com/start-high-gradually-lower/
And:
Never Purposely Hit Down On The Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/never-hit-down/
Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/divot
February 18, 2014
ERIABBERATHANKS PAUL.
February 18, 2014
ERIABBERAHi Paul,
Isn’t it possible that Tiger Woods is seesawing because he is protecting the right knee?
Just a thought. Thanks.
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonEriab,
He is see saying because he went to a teacher that teaches a setup that is too bent over.
February 17, 2014
JeromeLuchukGreat tip. I look forward to changing my thought process for the driver. Thanks for the help
Jerry
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonJerome,
Glad you liked it. Thanks.
Stay focused. I will get you there.
February 17, 2014
GeraldJoyceHey Paul,
When I swing the driver and pretend it is my seven iron it works very well solid contact that I check on my tell tape and straight
down the middle. It is scary too see how far the ball will fly with as little effort possible.
However, I have a related problem with my driver. When I hit it slow and easy with a great lower body knee touch and hinge release with full finish off it goes but it rises early and keeps on rising and hangs in the sky which seems like forever. But when it comes down it plops dead around 180 – 200 yards out. No low steady lift and roll on impact no driver distance my 3 wood goes about the same distance and my 3 rescue often rolls past the driver.
I have tried lowering the tee also moving forward and backward still rises like a balloon?
Can you help. Using a 9.5 loft regular shaft Slider driver.
Best regards,
Gerald (JJ)
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonGerald,
Perfect. I have replied to others basically telling them to do this. You only have one swing. If you cannot do it with all clubs you do not have one swing.
This excess spin happened to me for years. Then I go the right shaft for my swing and I never have that problem anymore. So I suggest getting professionally fitter b a fitter who has a Trackman. This will fix the problem.
February 18, 2014
GeraldJoyceHey Paul, Arranging for a complete fitting.
Thanks keep up the great work.
Best regards,
Gerald joyce
February 18, 2014
Paul WilsonGerald,
Very good. Make sure they have a Trackman.
February 18, 2014
DaleJenkinsIs there a directory or a referral list from Ignition Golf for club fitters? I am in New York and would like to find someone that can provide a quality evaluation. I understand that Bronson is in CA.
Best,
Dale
December 15, 2014
paulelliottPaul,
I have slowed my swing down with driver but sometimes when I am swinging slow I quit on shot. What can I focus on to stop me sometimes quitting on shot when swinging slow?
paul
December 17, 2014
Paul WilsonPaul,
That’s great that you are slowing down. You need to be thinking of going through to your ending. The Follow Through.
I have done tons of tips on this as this is the MOST IMPORTANT position in your swing.
Watch:
DRILL: Touch Legs Touch Head: https://ignitiongolf.com/follow-through-sequence-drill/
DRILL: Touch Head In Follow Through: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-touch-head-follow-through/
Hit, Hold and Check: https://ignitiongolf.com/hold-check-follow-through/
When Is Your Swing Over?: https://ignitiongolf.com/swing-club-touching-head/
December 19, 2014
paulelliottthanks and merry christmas
December 19, 2014
Paul WilsonPaul,
Merry Christmas to you too!
December 20, 2014
PeterEspositoPaul,
I was originally taught to swing fast to get good distance. It worked until I started swinging my arms ahead of my body. I then found your passive arms method better but it was difficult holding my arms back at the top of the back swing. Finally, I began feeling the club head at the top of the back swing and conceptualized using my body to square the club to contact and release. I don’t know how articulate that is but it works for me.
Peter
December 20, 2014
JackMcEncroeExcellent and timely. Thanks, Paul!
Merry Christmas.
Jack
December 21, 2014
Paul WilsonJack,
I thought there would be a bunch of people that tip could benefit. Just hit the fairway.
Merry Christmas to you too!
December 21, 2014
MichaelRodrickHi Paul;
If I could swing as easily as you do on this video & still hit it 200+ I’d be a very happy golfer. I’m not swinging my driver indoors due to space but am swinging constantly with an iron. Spring is a long way off & that really sucks. What is the average temperature in Vegas during the east coast winter? Have a great holiday!
December 21, 2014
Paul WilsonMichael,
So if I can do it why can’t you? If I were do a super human move I would say that you couldn’t do it. If I can swing less than you and hit it better than you I am doing it a different way than you. Just learn this different way. In doing so it will feel different but you will get used to it in no time. Then go farther with the legs and hips not the hands and arms.
Keep doing the indoor swings this is a great way to build your swing before next season. Focus on swinging easy and setting perfect positions. Just imagine if you started next season with a swing that looked like that of a tour pro. How god do you think you would play?
Throughout the winter it is usually mid 50’s with no humidity and no wind. This is a great time of year. We can get the odd day in the 40’s or even 30’s but this is rare.
November 6, 2015
Gary MeyersPaul,
Strange as this may seem, I have always had the opposite problem: I look at that big, heavy head on my driver, and I find it easier to leave my arms out of things, and let my body whip the club head around. But when it comes to irons, especially long irons, I feel the club head is so small that I have to swing like crazy with my arms, in order to get the ball to go anyplace. Of course, the opposite is what usually happens.
November 7, 2015
Paul WilsonGary,
This can certainly happen. Got to build a great swing and trust that it is going to allow the club to return to the ball. Maybe you see the club as mass as I said in a recent tip. Then see the physics that would allow it to swing to its widest arc every time. If the ball is at the end of the widest arc you should hit it consistently. The problem with long irons is everyone wants to hit the hard. When doing so they usually leave the face open. With long irons try swinging a little slower to allow the face to square. This should get you hitting it solidly so you can trust it. I did a tip here:
How to Hit Long Irons: https://ignitiongolf.com/hit-long-irons/
August 16, 2017
BenhartNiemiMy ball flight is high and I’m losing distance especially with irons. What can I do to correct it? I didn’t see a cure on dashboard.
August 16, 2017
Paul WilsonBenhart,
This is the sign of a chicken wing so you need to look for all of those tips. Just type what you are looking for in the search bar on the right side. If so, every tip I have done on that subject will come up. There is one in the Dashboard and the red nav bar on the original site.
The chicken wing causes the grip to fall behind the head thus adding loft.
Watch:
You Are Hitting A 9 Iron: https://ignitiongolf.com/adding-loft-clubs/
Easy Ways To Lower Trajectory: https://ignitiongolf.com/hit-lower-easy-ways/
Lower Overall Trajectory: https://ignitiongolf.com/lower-trajectory/
April 10, 2018
StephenClutterPaul, just finished a two man scramble and we came in the money. I have had a problem with spraying my short and mid irons mostly pulling and pushing. I have started using my lower body to initiate the down swing, turning the hips then shoulders to the target. My iron shots have become crisp and on line…one problem though, i am consistently 1 to 2 irons short. I hit a 7 iron usually 150 yds. Now it’s between 135 to 140 yds. Any advice on how to get more didtance. I must say, this new swing really feels great and I don’t want to go back to hitting with my arms and hands.
Thanks,
Steve
April 11, 2018
Paul WilsonSteve,
You are not good at it so it is going to take some work. You need to drive the lower harder/faster while not trying to hit or help the ball. You need to follow this tip though:
DRILL: Golf Swing Timing For More Distance: https://ignitiongolf.com/timing-more-distance/
Then do these drills:
DRILL: Listen to Club Swinging: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-listen-to-club/
DRILL: How To Really Increase Power: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-really-increase-power/
Up In The Air Drills – Body Tilt: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-body-tilt/
Up In The Air Drills – Maintaining Balance: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-maintaining-balance/
Up In The Air Drills – Watching The Club Blur: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-watch-blur/
Up In The Air Drills – Clubhead Release: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-release/
Up In The Air Drills – Speed: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-speed/
Up In The Air Drills – Separation: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-separation/
Up In The Air Drills – Wider Arc: https://ignitiongolf.com/air-drills-wider-arc/
April 11, 2018
Paul WilsonSteve,
Scrambles are not good for the golf swing. Be careful how many of these you play in and that you are not trying to hammer it as hard as you can.
April 13, 2018
StephenClutterThanks Paul. I belong to the MGA here in Hot Springs Village and we play different formats. I appreciate all your help.
Steve