While I am, if anything, known to be a wordsmith, not an engineer or physicist, I nevertheless must risk asking the obvious, perhaps, concerning IRON BYRON – the most nearly perfect way to swing the golf club. As you ingeniously discovered, IB is the best model to use. He demonstrates the three key elements in the best way to swing – Circular Body Rotation, Unrestricted Hinge, and Constant Forward Axis Tilt.
My question concerns the Hinge. Since IB’s arm is attached to his Driveshaft, it can only rotate in a
circular arc as his Driveshaft moves. The arm otherwise can only provide motion by hinging and
unhinging the club to provide power at impact to release. Since the club starts at 180 degrees [parallel] to downswing plane, and squares up to target line at impact. it must be able to rotate 90 degrees in the process, it seems. Since I cannot see the attachment hinge in either the BMG book or DVD, this is my conclusion.
Our human arms, of course, rotate 90 degrees from setup to top of back swing, and again from the top down to impact and release. So it would seem that IB must have a swivel of some sort where the club is connected and hinged. Am I right in this understanding?
Thanks for your patience in dealing with this question.
Don’t over think the machine. I’ve had people do this for years. The whole point is to make it simple.
The machine has brakes and gears in its hinge. It was designed to test clubs so it has to be 100%. At first it when the hinge was totally loose it would snap the shaft off in the ceiling ever time it swung.
You are forgetting mass wanting to swing to its widest point. If the arm started straight and the face square even without gears it would swing to its widest point which would have the face square because this was pre-determined at setup.
Pros are only 70% because we have 2 legs and move between them. So we do not turn in a perfect circle. The machine does.
Thank you so very much for your simple but clear answer. It makes total sense to me, but I was too curious not to be sure. I have always preached “KISS” myself as a teacher or coach, but have not always followed it. While this information is not required to swing perfectly or play well, it does help
perfectionists/cerebral guys like me to feel more complete and confident when I do know.
Thanks again, Paul, for your patient and professional attitude and assistance.
If I do not happen to feel a need to ask about something again [With thousands of Tips],
Please enjoy a Merry Christmas Feast of Love.
John Cy Perry
I think I over did the shoulders open at impact because I started to pull the ball. I had to go back to feeling the shoulders more square feel like I was swing down the line and not left
You probably ending up using your arms trying to get tehm to go left also. You want to get your shoulders lightly open by using your legs and hips, not your shoulders to spin out. If you start to hit shots left, then I would be looking at the “over-the-top” series. Then are some great drills to work on with it. Try looking at these: Over The Top – Where Are Your Palms Facing?: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-palms/
Over The Top – Where Is The Butt Pointing?: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-butt-pointing/
Over The Top – Swinging Up Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-swing-up/
Over The Top – Swing To First Base: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-first-base/
10 Responses to “Where The Shoulders Should Be At Impact and Past Impact”
July 21, 2018
ToddMartinthis video helped answer my question on the shoulders and release ,thanks
July 22, 2018
Paul WilsonGlad you see it.
December 13, 2018
JOHNPERRYSir Paul,
While I am, if anything, known to be a wordsmith, not an engineer or physicist, I nevertheless must risk asking the obvious, perhaps, concerning IRON BYRON – the most nearly perfect way to swing the golf club. As you ingeniously discovered, IB is the best model to use. He demonstrates the three key elements in the best way to swing – Circular Body Rotation, Unrestricted Hinge, and Constant Forward Axis Tilt.
My question concerns the Hinge. Since IB’s arm is attached to his Driveshaft, it can only rotate in a
circular arc as his Driveshaft moves. The arm otherwise can only provide motion by hinging and
unhinging the club to provide power at impact to release. Since the club starts at 180 degrees [parallel] to downswing plane, and squares up to target line at impact. it must be able to rotate 90 degrees in the process, it seems. Since I cannot see the attachment hinge in either the BMG book or DVD, this is my conclusion.
Our human arms, of course, rotate 90 degrees from setup to top of back swing, and again from the top down to impact and release. So it would seem that IB must have a swivel of some sort where the club is connected and hinged. Am I right in this understanding?
Thanks for your patience in dealing with this question.
John Cy Perry
December 14, 2018
Paul WilsonJohn,
Don’t over think the machine. I’ve had people do this for years. The whole point is to make it simple.
The machine has brakes and gears in its hinge. It was designed to test clubs so it has to be 100%. At first it when the hinge was totally loose it would snap the shaft off in the ceiling ever time it swung.
You are forgetting mass wanting to swing to its widest point. If the arm started straight and the face square even without gears it would swing to its widest point which would have the face square because this was pre-determined at setup.
Pros are only 70% because we have 2 legs and move between them. So we do not turn in a perfect circle. The machine does.
December 14, 2018
JOHNPERRYSir Paul,
Thank you so very much for your simple but clear answer. It makes total sense to me, but I was too curious not to be sure. I have always preached “KISS” myself as a teacher or coach, but have not always followed it. While this information is not required to swing perfectly or play well, it does help
perfectionists/cerebral guys like me to feel more complete and confident when I do know.
Thanks again, Paul, for your patient and professional attitude and assistance.
If I do not happen to feel a need to ask about something again [With thousands of Tips],
Please enjoy a Merry Christmas Feast of Love.
John Cy Perry
December 16, 2018
Paul WilsonJohn,
Glad I could help. I like to put it in ways people actually understand. I would rather be too simple that too complicated.
Have a great Christmas too.
June 24, 2019
mikeschickWow. You don’t see that very often. I was amazed how far you held the wrist cock into the downswing. Great photography!
July 3, 2019
Paul WilsonMike,
I worked on the angle many years ago because I did start golf a little older at 12-13 years old.
How to Feel Lag: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-lag-1/
How I Got Lag 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/lag-follow-up/
Do this plus the new vertical to vertical tips and you will have this angle too (in way less time it took me).
May 22, 2020
ChrisI think I over did the shoulders open at impact because I started to pull the ball. I had to go back to feeling the shoulders more square feel like I was swing down the line and not left
May 25, 2020
Paul WilsonYou probably ending up using your arms trying to get tehm to go left also. You want to get your shoulders lightly open by using your legs and hips, not your shoulders to spin out. If you start to hit shots left, then I would be looking at the “over-the-top” series. Then are some great drills to work on with it. Try looking at these: Over The Top – Where Are Your Palms Facing?: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-palms/
Over The Top – Where Is The Butt Pointing?: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-butt-pointing/
Over The Top – Swinging Up Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-swing-up/
Over The Top – Swing To First Base: https://ignitiongolf.com/ott-first-base/