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Tags: DownswingFlatten DownswingHow to Flatten Your Swing Plane
Paul Wilson is the creator of Swing Machine Golf and founder of Ignition Golf. Paul's golf swing technique is based on the Iron Byron swing machine.
Paul Wilson Golf and
Ignition Golf Tips.
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November 18, 2013
Great video again Paul this has long been a problem of mine the one of many.
I was wondering whats the biggest drop in handicaps you have seen from someone using your system i was on 24 went out a few after first starting your system and have a goal of mid to low teens is this possible?
November 19, 2013
I am not sure what the biggest drop is. The story I tell is taking a guy from 95 to shooting 75 in 2 months and he never hit one practice ball. I literally gave him a 10 min. lesson each week for 2 months so 8 lessons approx. 10 mins. each. At the end of it he looked like he could shoot 65 so shooting 75 was expected. This why I keep telling people to do the practice swings. Do they listen? Unfortunately, not.
I have thousands of testimonials so I am sure there are even better ones but I like that one because I proved that not hitting balls and doing my swing positions creates dramatic results.
Your goal is easily do-able. Just understand the positions I teach. Do practice swings every night focusing on the feedback of each position. Work on grip, setup and follow through first. Mastering this alone will have you hitting it better than you even have. Then work on the backswing coil and wrist hinge. Finally, work on the takeaway.
If you want to do practice swings do 25-50 swings every night if you can. If you go to hit balls do 3 practice swings to every 1 ball. Do this until you master the swing positions then you taper off the practice swings to hitting a few shots then doing a few practice swings and so on.
Stay focused and you will get it. I would also do a Video Golf Lesson with Pete so we can check your positioning. Yes, this costs money but it is a small price to pay for a great swing.
Thanks for the reply
I’m doing a video lesson with you guys really looking forward to it how ever the weather isn’t playing very nice at the moment making it hard to get onto the course should be good in a few days.
November 20, 2013
That’s great. I am very disappointed that more people aren’t doing this. I would have killed to be able to send video of my swing to various pros when I was learning many years ago. This would have saved me tens of thousands of dollars as well as eliminating years of frustration. Glad you see the importance of it.
I can’t express how great it is to have you guys look at my swing
Living in Melbourne Australia I have little to none chance of ever getting to you so this is a great chance to improve my swing
Having just retired from Aussie rules football golf is now my sporting life and I want nothing more than to be a better golfer as I just love the game but am finding it extremely tough
I have a lot of bad habits and find I don’t hit the ball anywhere near the lenght I should being tall with long arms my slice and over the top swing I think robs me a lot hopefully I can fix this.
November 21, 2013
Glad you are doing a Video Golf Lesson. This will confirm what you should and shouldn’t be working on.
May 8, 2014
I’m really enjoying the website and all of your videos. Thanks!
I feel like I typically unwind my upper body to power the downswing. I probably power it with my arms at times also, but I feel like it’s generally powered by rotating my torso, rather than my legs making my torso turn.
Given that, would it be an appropriate feeling to try to keep my upper body turned away from the target for as long as possible while the lower body begins the downswing? Obviously, it’s more of a feeling than reality, since the torso starts moving immediately as a result of hips turning back. I’ve tried some practice swings with this sensation in mind, and I like the look of it, and my head stays behind the ball (instead of my typical head dive), and I can see the shaft flatten. However, it feels weird, less powerful, and off balance. Perhaps that’s just because it’s a new movement?
Glad you like the videos. You’ve been with me for a while so I appreciate your continue support. I remember your swing and I know you have to be close to getting this.
This is a way to start the downswing. The problem is blowing it right because you are holding the back to long to the target. Also, if the shoulders are square instead of open at impact you run the risk of flipping it which is going to cause the hook.
If you want to try this for a while then do so and watch the ball to see what happens. If you start blowing it right then think lower body rotation to straighten it out.
Are you not doing practice swings off the ground? This would get the lower body moving first in the downswing. If you just feel like you are swinging up at it a little it would train you to stay behind it in the downswing This is with driver but you could get the feeling with irons but be careful not to swing up at it with an iron an top it.
Drill: Swing Up with Driver: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-swing-up-driver/
DRILL: Listen to Club Swinging: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-listen-to-club
I realize the body tilt behind the ball is tricky for some people. If you have to manually tilt right to stay back do it. Be careful though. Most people who do something like this will end up blowing it too far right because they have developed a path too much from the inside. Also, be careful not to take it too far inside as you go back. To make sure you don’t do this re-set each time you set up to the ball. If you are too tilted at address you will pull it back the inside. So normal setup. Take it back normally. As you change direction tilt right. See the path swing out at it and make sure you release it. Keep doing his until any over the top move is gone. If you blow it way right then start to turn to get the path back down the line.
I will be doing a tip on this in the near future.
Body Tilt: https://ignitiongolf.com/impact-body-tilt
Impact Head Behind Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/impact-head
Stop Fat Shots When Working On Moving Your Head: https://ignitiongolf.com/fat-shots-moving-your-head/
May 19, 2014
Paul, I have everyone tell me too swing more down with my irons. Also I have a tendency to hit under the ball with my driver & sky the ball. Any ideas?
If you are following me then don’t listen to anyone else. You are already hitting down. How is this working out for you? You are obviously not taking a divot that is why you are even saying this. Plus, you are skying your driver which is you hitting down with a driver. When you purposely hit down your arm muscles contract which makes your arms shorter than the ones you started with. If your arms are getting shorter there is no way you will take a divot unless you dip down a few inches. How can you be consistent if you are dipping down? If you are not trying to hit your arm muscles will extend. The divot is created by your body tilting right in the downswing. As you tilt you are getting closer to the ground.
How To Take A Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-take-a-divot/
Never Purposely Hit Down On The Ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/never-hit-down/
May 20, 2014
Thanks. I have a friend that hits the balll YOUR way. He said he uses his hips in his swing that also generates speed & it appears he turns slow, but he hits the ball 30 to 40 yards farther than me. Now he is about 2 to 30 inche taller than me so he gets more leverage. But he still uses his hips to swing. Am trying to get that move into my swing but at 65 it is hard to break old habits. When i have hit the ball Your way it is effortless & my shots are longer & straighter.
November 17, 2014
Always good to see these videos again. In this last one you mention that there are those who “flatten too much”, dropping their hands under plane. I am one. Have been using your method and it’s been great, but the only fault I have not managed to eliminate is that, which of course prevents me from hitting fades. Can you give me a drill to stop dropping the hand and remain on the same plane one I have terminated the backswing?
November 18, 2014
Paul I had an instructor tell me to drop my hands before I use my lower body to power the golf swing. He actually is the father of Ken Duke. Since I am following u on changing my golf swing I wanted your take on this. Thanks
This person is trying to get you to not use your arms and stop coming over the top. The thing is, you only have 1/4 of a second from the top to impact. If you are thinking drop when are you turning? As a drill this dropping arms would be a good thought. If you let them drop you are not hitting with them or coming over the top. So do it as a drill to loosen them up. Then power your swing with your legs and hips.
March 26, 2015
Starting the downswing I can’t get my shaft to flatten to 90 degrees like you do, but my pre impact position looks like yours.
Your comment? Thanks.
At impact my shoulders are not open like yours; and my arms, unlike yours, are fully extended. Am I a “flipper”?
Any suggestion on how to overcome this?
Your golf instruction is the BEST!
Glad you like the tips. Thank you for your feedback.
I hope you are using the new dashboard. Learn how to use it here:
If your plane is not flattening your are using your arms and/or still tilting left in the downswing. My arms are like string. My club is a weight and my body is my had twirling it. I turn my body first and do nothing with my arms. In doing so, the club flattens because the mass wants to swing at 90 degrees to the axis.
Your shoulders are not open – this is you not turning fast enough. Yes, you are most likely flipping it.
How To Stop Flipping Through Impact: https://ignitiongolf.com/stop-flipping/
How do you stop hitting with the arms:
1. Recognize that hitting with your arms is not working.
2. Understand why you should be turning them off.
3. Understand what powerless arms is: https://ignitiongolf.com/what-is-powerless-arms/
4. Hit easier shots. The more you turn your arms off the more you have to use your body to hit the ball: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-three-quarter-distance/
5. Work on drills do get you using your lower body. If you are not good at using our legs and hips you need to get good at using your legs and hips.
Do these drills constantly tens of thousands of times:
DRILL: Swing Off Ground: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-swing-off-ground
DRILL: My Favorite Drill – Variation 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/favorite-drill-variation-2/
DRILL: Swing Off Ground Variation: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-variation-favorite-drill/
DRILL: How To Really Increase Power: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-really-increase-power/
Driving Hips Harder But Hook It First: https://ignitiongolf.com/driving-hips-hook-first/
There are more in the dashboard. You can find them under DRILLS > Legs and Hips
July 20, 2015
Hi Paul, I have a Swingbyte II which allows me to see the (club head) shape of my swing graphically (back-swing and downswing) in plan, DTL and front on. I find the Swingbyte a very helpful aid as an supplement to your tips. I would guess that many of your Ignition Golf members have similar learning aids and would like to see the shape of your swing given that they, like me, are trying to model their swing on yours. Seeing your swing shape would be a major help to me as it would enable me to see if I am getting closer to my objective.
Would it be possible to publish your swing shape somewhere on your web site? It would be even better if you could also publish the corresponding video that corresponds to the view(s) of the swing(s). The Swingbyte alows you to capture the corresponding video if you use the iPad version of the Swingbyte App.
I don’t have a SwingByte. I will publish my swing from various angles in the near future.
August 26, 2018
This is my most frustrating thing about my swing. Over the top. Ugh!
With me, I can automatically tell if I am over the top by my direction of the divot when using my irons. The longer the club means a more severe left facing divot. If I can fix this I will improve every aspect of my ball striking.
August 27, 2018
Just got to understand it (which you now do). You are hitting. This is leaning your left. If so, you will swing left. Need to get used to tilting back in the downswing. Do it daily and get used to it.
November 27, 2018
Several golfers i know try to emulate Moe Norman’s swing, which they claim to be single-planed [90 degrees] in both coil and recoil mode, and in which he seems to flatten the downswing plane severely as he appears to be hitting to the right of both body line and target line, but accurately hits with a bent front knee, his named target hundreds and hundreds of times in a row.
I read in a tip that you say he pulls his shots, but he looks more like he may be hitting a “draw” or a “fake draw”…He also says his arms are like “cooked spaghetti,” and yet he seems to be blending both arm and body power, a bit reminiscent of Hogan.
I will, of course, be sticking with you 100%, but I am curious – in terms of my own fault fixing ability as I go and grow – what you think about this phenomenon of the Moe syndrome and its source.
Thanks for your insights…it might also help me in recruiting or enlightening my friends in conversation as we play…
John Cy Perry
I grew up in the twin cities. One was Kitchener (Moe Grew up there) I grew up in Waterloo so I knew all about Moe. I even tried the swing several times over the years. The last time I saw Moe do a clinic at our course he had hit over 4 million balls. So repeating that move that many times might have had something to do with hit.
Without much hip rotation I find that that swing does not produce enough power plus the super wide stance makes it tough to get off the back foot putting pressure on the lower back. I just find it tough to do and didn’t get much power.
It works for some but as you see there are no PGA Tour Pros doing this swing. Bryson would be the closest with this own modifications to it.
February 28, 2019
If I focus on pushing off with my right foot (right handed golfer) and having my belt buckle return to the ball before my head and club, wouldn’t that help me get the correcrt backward lean at impact?
October 15, 2019
I really struggle to rotate for some reason
October 17, 2019
You need to work on the touch the legs position. You cannot do this if you do not shift and turn. Make sure the lead leg locks at the end of your swing. Too many people keep it bent which hampers the rotation.
Exactly How To Do Touch The Legs Position: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-touch-the-legs-position/
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