i do this by pointing the butt end of the club at the line thru the golf ball. a pga pro showed me this and it keeps me on the plane all the time i pay attention to it
Not been hitting my fairway woods as cleanly as my irons of late. Saw myself in the mirror at the range and for some reason my left elbow (I’m left handed) was coming out away from my body ( not so with my irons) also a big gap between my two arms. Now trying to keep my left elbow down and in towards my body more making the follow thru easier and wrists a lot looser. Now worried that I may have flattened my swing too much.
Hi Paul – I have been able to get the upright plane on the backswing but as I turn my hips the plane flattens as I follow through on the downswing. Can you do a tip on maintaining the upright plane on the downswing?
You want the plane flattening in the downswing. This should be occurring because the arms are powerless and you are starting the downswing with the lower body. When this occurs the mass (club) will flatten towards 90 degrees to the axis (upper body). This is physics.
HEY PAUL,,,,I HAVE ONE BIG,BIG MAJOR PROBLEM,I COULD USE YOUR HELP WITH..WHENEVER,I LISTEN OR SEE YOUR GOLF SWING TIPS OR VIDEO,I COMMIT IT TO MY MEMORY OR SMARTPHONE,AND TRY TO WORK ON ALL THE ADVICE,WHILE I AM PLAYING,,THERFORE EVERY SHOT IS TAKING 45 SECS+,WHICH IS RUINING MY GAME AND MY PLAYING PARTNERS.IE,,GRIP THIS WAY,BACKSWING THIS WAY,ROTATION THIS WAY,DOWNSW,ETC.,ETC,,I AM GETTING PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS..WHY CANT I SIMPLY STEP UP,AND HIT THE BALL IN 10-20 SECS. LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE?? NEED UR HELP
You do not have to work on everything all at once. There is a lot of information here. Start with grip and set up. You can find these in the red navigation bar at the top of the page. Once you get through those videos move on to the follow through positions. I teach the swing backwards. I work on the follow through first then I work on the backswing. So master these 2 positions:
Once you get this start working on the backswing tips.
This will narrow your thoughts down to grip, set up and 2 positions which are after the ball is hit. Do these position at home, at the range and do 2 practice swings before every full shot. Then immediately step up to the ball and try to do them. Over time this will get faster and faster until you are doing them consistently. Then work on 1 backswing position and so on until you have the whole swing.
On the video it looks like the elbow on the downswing comes back into the body and locks for an instant, but then pulls away. I find my elbow coming back in to the body on the downswing through contact. Is this wrong?
The elbow should not be touching your body at impact. This is because the right arm should almost be straight at this point in the swing. It is fully extended at the release point just after impact:
I just watched the casting video and then came to this one. Powerless arms I get, and the physics of the swing. My problem is when I let the club go to the top (feel as though my hands are as far away from my right ear as comfortable without pushing them up) it seems I don’t flatten on the downswing and tend to be “over the plane” a little with the result often being a push or fade (I’m right handed).
This position is a very powerful move for me and I get great distance, but it is erratic and trying to “attach” the right elbow in the tuck and flattening is the only was to get consistency. I haven’t checked to see if the club is above my head, but I will next opportunity. Any suggestions on a happy medium to keep the downswing on plane? I’ve been trying to “sit” a little more and keep my chest pointed out on the other side of the line as you’ve shown.
BTW, great content and method. Been working with one of your students, SW, from Hesperia, and I’ve made some great strides since beginning your method in January.
Currently maintaining an 8 index and hope to reduce that by a few strokes before the end of the year. Thanks for your insight and sharing.
Glad you like my method. I truly appreciate the feedback. Say Hi to Steve. I hope he has his follow through mastered.
If you are pushing it or push fading it you cannot be over the top unless your clubface is so wide open that the ball starts right. I highly doubt your clubface is that open (you are an 8 hdcp) so if you are over the top and pushing it you would be taking it incredibly deep inside going back (ala Bobby Jones). Then as the club comes over the top it is still attacking from the inside. This is the only way this will occur from over the top.
If you are Pushing and Push Fading you would have to be attacking too much from the inside. If you are over the top the ball would be Pulling or Pull Hooking (unless the face is severely open as I mentioned above). So I need to know exactly where the ball is going before I can get you heading in the right direction.
The next time you are at the course make sure you lay a club down parallel to the target line so you are perfectly aligned. Then hit a few shots and tell me where they are going from a square setup.
Finally, your body determines the direction of your shots. If you are over the top your whole upper body is leaning left in the downswing. So you need it to lean right. If you over do the right tilt the ball will start right. So again, the next time you are at the range just tilt left and right and you will see the direction of your shots change. Ideally, you should be starting the legs first which tilts the upper body slightly right. If this occurs the path will be slightly from the inside allowing you to hit the ball straight.
So do that for me first. Let me know on the next tip I post. Once I know exactly where the ball is going from square I can diagnose it better.
I went and looked at my video, I’m 2 piecing. I’ll work on the one piece takeaway and see where that gets me. Thanks for the quick reply and I’ll mention the follow through in the morning when we play… 🙂
Paul ,In THE 35/40’s ,THE golf greATS of THE Time ,HENRY PICARD ,ALEX MORRISON ,HENRY COTTON ,BOBBY JONES ,GENE SARAZEN ,ETC..,and later SAM SNEAD ,took their left arm back very high in THE backswing ,so did JOHNNY MILLER .and JACK NICKLAUS .
My first teacher ,the FRENCH champion OF THE 50’s ,JEAN GARAIALDE had a very upright swing also .
Now THE swings are flatter and THE left arm doesn’t go so high.I myself am fighting all THE Time to get that left arm and right lower right arm higher : I ‘ve found THE first drill -Flexibility-of MIKE BAUMAN (THE ULTIMATE Swing trainer which you recommend )to be very effective to correct my d
I want the swing upright. As you said, some (most) of the best players of all time were upright. Why would anyone want to do a flat golf swing? This makes no sense. I would put up any of the greats against any of the flat swingers any day. If am also yet to see one long driver with a flat golf swing. All of the ones I saw at the long drive competition were upright. I will never stop teaching this way.
Paul,
It seems that in order to feel myself coiling properly my swing ends up being too flat or the club ends up being laid off. Any advice on how to fix that? Thanks so much for the tips, they really help.
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19 Responses to “Is Your Golf Swing Too Flat?”
November 22, 2012
DOUGTANZERi do this by pointing the butt end of the club at the line thru the golf ball. a pga pro showed me this and it keeps me on the plane all the time i pay attention to it
November 23, 2012
Paul WilsonDoug,
This is a good way to get it. Keep doing it.
November 22, 2012
PaulLucasNot been hitting my fairway woods as cleanly as my irons of late. Saw myself in the mirror at the range and for some reason my left elbow (I’m left handed) was coming out away from my body ( not so with my irons) also a big gap between my two arms. Now trying to keep my left elbow down and in towards my body more making the follow thru easier and wrists a lot looser. Now worried that I may have flattened my swing too much.
November 23, 2012
Paul WilsonPaul,
I don’t like this flat swing so make sure you are trying to get it more up.
It seems you need more connection under the left armpit. I like keeping the elbow together. This is a great thing to be working on.
Connection: https://ignitiongolf.com/connection-backswing
Gap In Elbows: https://ignitiongolf.com/maintain-gap-elbows-wider-arc
November 23, 2012
MarkJohnsonHi Paul – I have been able to get the upright plane on the backswing but as I turn my hips the plane flattens as I follow through on the downswing. Can you do a tip on maintaining the upright plane on the downswing?
November 23, 2012
Paul WilsonMark,
You want the plane flattening in the downswing. This should be occurring because the arms are powerless and you are starting the downswing with the lower body. When this occurs the mass (club) will flatten towards 90 degrees to the axis (upper body). This is physics.
Watch:
Flatten Plane 1: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane
Flatten Plane 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane-2
November 25, 2012
richmosneyHEY PAUL,,,,I HAVE ONE BIG,BIG MAJOR PROBLEM,I COULD USE YOUR HELP WITH..WHENEVER,I LISTEN OR SEE YOUR GOLF SWING TIPS OR VIDEO,I COMMIT IT TO MY MEMORY OR SMARTPHONE,AND TRY TO WORK ON ALL THE ADVICE,WHILE I AM PLAYING,,THERFORE EVERY SHOT IS TAKING 45 SECS+,WHICH IS RUINING MY GAME AND MY PLAYING PARTNERS.IE,,GRIP THIS WAY,BACKSWING THIS WAY,ROTATION THIS WAY,DOWNSW,ETC.,ETC,,I AM GETTING PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS..WHY CANT I SIMPLY STEP UP,AND HIT THE BALL IN 10-20 SECS. LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE?? NEED UR HELP
November 25, 2012
Paul WilsonRich,
You do not have to work on everything all at once. There is a lot of information here. Start with grip and set up. You can find these in the red navigation bar at the top of the page. Once you get through those videos move on to the follow through positions. I teach the swing backwards. I work on the follow through first then I work on the backswing. So master these 2 positions:
Legs Touching: https://ignitiongolf.com/touch-knees
One Of The Secrets To The Golf Swing: https://ignitiongolf.com/secrets-to-golf-swing/
Once you get this start working on the backswing tips.
This will narrow your thoughts down to grip, set up and 2 positions which are after the ball is hit. Do these position at home, at the range and do 2 practice swings before every full shot. Then immediately step up to the ball and try to do them. Over time this will get faster and faster until you are doing them consistently. Then work on 1 backswing position and so on until you have the whole swing.
November 27, 2012
RandyGormanOn the video it looks like the elbow on the downswing comes back into the body and locks for an instant, but then pulls away. I find my elbow coming back in to the body on the downswing through contact. Is this wrong?
November 28, 2012
Paul WilsonRandy,
If you are not using your arms the right elbow should be tucking in the downswing.
Watch:
Right Elbow: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-right-elbow
Flatten Plane 1: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane
Flatten Plane 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane-2
The elbow should not be touching your body at impact. This is because the right arm should almost be straight at this point in the swing. It is fully extended at the release point just after impact:
How to Release the Golf Club: https://ignitiongolf.com/impact-wrist-release
April 11, 2013
DanKiewiczPaul,
I just watched the casting video and then came to this one. Powerless arms I get, and the physics of the swing. My problem is when I let the club go to the top (feel as though my hands are as far away from my right ear as comfortable without pushing them up) it seems I don’t flatten on the downswing and tend to be “over the plane” a little with the result often being a push or fade (I’m right handed).
This position is a very powerful move for me and I get great distance, but it is erratic and trying to “attach” the right elbow in the tuck and flattening is the only was to get consistency. I haven’t checked to see if the club is above my head, but I will next opportunity. Any suggestions on a happy medium to keep the downswing on plane? I’ve been trying to “sit” a little more and keep my chest pointed out on the other side of the line as you’ve shown.
BTW, great content and method. Been working with one of your students, SW, from Hesperia, and I’ve made some great strides since beginning your method in January.
Currently maintaining an 8 index and hope to reduce that by a few strokes before the end of the year. Thanks for your insight and sharing.
April 11, 2013
Paul WilsonDan,
Glad you like my method. I truly appreciate the feedback. Say Hi to Steve. I hope he has his follow through mastered.
If you are pushing it or push fading it you cannot be over the top unless your clubface is so wide open that the ball starts right. I highly doubt your clubface is that open (you are an 8 hdcp) so if you are over the top and pushing it you would be taking it incredibly deep inside going back (ala Bobby Jones). Then as the club comes over the top it is still attacking from the inside. This is the only way this will occur from over the top.
If you are Pushing and Push Fading you would have to be attacking too much from the inside. If you are over the top the ball would be Pulling or Pull Hooking (unless the face is severely open as I mentioned above). So I need to know exactly where the ball is going before I can get you heading in the right direction.
The next time you are at the course make sure you lay a club down parallel to the target line so you are perfectly aligned. Then hit a few shots and tell me where they are going from a square setup.
Watch:
Alignment: https://ignitiongolf.com/golf-alignment
Also, I get a feeling you are taking it way inside going back so try this out when you have a second.
One Piece Takeaway: https://ignitiongolf.com/master-one-piece-takeaway
Finally, your body determines the direction of your shots. If you are over the top your whole upper body is leaning left in the downswing. So you need it to lean right. If you over do the right tilt the ball will start right. So again, the next time you are at the range just tilt left and right and you will see the direction of your shots change. Ideally, you should be starting the legs first which tilts the upper body slightly right. If this occurs the path will be slightly from the inside allowing you to hit the ball straight.
So do that for me first. Let me know on the next tip I post. Once I know exactly where the ball is going from square I can diagnose it better.
April 12, 2013
DanKiewiczPaul,
I went and looked at my video, I’m 2 piecing. I’ll work on the one piece takeaway and see where that gets me. Thanks for the quick reply and I’ll mention the follow through in the morning when we play… 🙂
Dan…
April 13, 2013
Paul WilsonDan,
Very good you caught this. Yes, work on this for now. Also, check the alignment.
April 14, 2013
DanKiewiczWILCO
July 26, 2013
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,In THE 35/40’s ,THE golf greATS of THE Time ,HENRY PICARD ,ALEX MORRISON ,HENRY COTTON ,BOBBY JONES ,GENE SARAZEN ,ETC..,and later SAM SNEAD ,took their left arm back very high in THE backswing ,so did JOHNNY MILLER .and JACK NICKLAUS .
My first teacher ,the FRENCH champion OF THE 50’s ,JEAN GARAIALDE had a very upright swing also .
Now THE swings are flatter and THE left arm doesn’t go so high.I myself am fighting all THE Time to get that left arm and right lower right arm higher : I ‘ve found THE first drill -Flexibility-of MIKE BAUMAN (THE ULTIMATE Swing trainer which you recommend )to be very effective to correct my d
July 27, 2013
Paul WilsonRaymond,
I want the swing upright. As you said, some (most) of the best players of all time were upright. Why would anyone want to do a flat golf swing? This makes no sense. I would put up any of the greats against any of the flat swingers any day. If am also yet to see one long driver with a flat golf swing. All of the ones I saw at the long drive competition were upright. I will never stop teaching this way.
August 8, 2014
JaredMerrimanPaul,
It seems that in order to feel myself coiling properly my swing ends up being too flat or the club ends up being laid off. Any advice on how to fix that? Thanks so much for the tips, they really help.
Jared
August 9, 2014
Paul WilsonJared,
You need to lift your arms up into position until you train them to go up there. Do I think about lifting them up? No. Watch these tips:
From here you lift the club up:
Halfway Back: https://ignitiongolf.com/halfway-back
Then:
Too Flat: https://ignitiongolf.com/backswing-are-you-too-flat
Elbow Position Backswing: https://ignitiongolf.com/elbow-position-backswing
3 Ways to Set The Top of the Backswing: https://ignitiongolf.com/backswing-top-3-ways