I am 70 years old with degerative disk problems in my lower back. I just took a video of my swing and it appears that I have a problem with separation betweem my lower and upper body. It looks that my lower body wants to turn back along with my shoulders in my backswing causing my head and spine angle to come up. It looks like a similar thing happens on my followthrough with my hands going up too high instead of around.
What would you recommend for someone like me to get more separation for a better shoulder turn?
Jim, You are coming out of it on the way back because your body feels the tightness and wants to relieve it. This is human nature. You need to be turning back as far as YOU can not as far as I or other people can. If you can only get to 70 degrees don’t try to go back farther. So you stabilize the lower body and start turning your shoulders back. Once you feel the stretch/tightness you are done. Hinge your wrists fully to get the club to the top. Once you are at the top you need to then work on starting down with your downswing trigger. In doing so, you go to the touch the legs position. If you are coming out of it in the through swing you are trying to hit it too hard with the arms. The harder you hit the more you will look to see what you hit. So obviously you need to turn the arms off and power the swing with the lower body.
Also, you should not be looking for your ball until after you hit the ball. If you do you will be maintaining the spine angle through the shot. I think one position you are forgetting is this one:
I am assuming you purchased a video golf lesson. That is why you sent those swing. I really do not have time to watch swings from people because if I start then everyone will send in their swing and I will have even less of a life than I already have. We offer this as a separate service. My assistant watches the swings and send you back your own lesson explaining what to work on. You can find out more here:
Great response Paul. I agree completely that the ability to turn properly is individually specific. Jim, degenerative disc disease in the lumbar spine does make it difficult and painful to move the spine… I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that. Depending on the severity, symptoms can be constant or intermittent. In light of this, dynamic exercise (as I’ve shown throughout the videos) is highly recommended but obviously within reason. I would highly recommend visiting a physical therapist in your local area for proper evaluation and treatment concerning your specific diagnosis. Your MD should be the person to help you get this started and also look at other treatments if necessary.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
For both Paul and Jeremy ,
It’s just fine to be able to rotate fully on THE backswing and THE through swing : i do rotate fairly well since I practise this daily .Where I am bad at is THE SPEED of the forward rotation :I taken THE test shown on video by Paul :speed of THE club headwith arms and wrists only ,speed with THE same plus hip rotation .then finally speed with THE arms plus THE hips plus THE rotation around THE left leg .THE result is that THE increase in speed from THE hips and THE rotation over THE left leg is minimal over THE SPEED it THe arms only .
I keep working on this weakness continually withno result .
Probably Th
Then you need to be constantly be working on lag and wrist release drills. You said you played a fade. In saying this at your level I know your wrists are too tight. This tightness is holding the face open slightly through impact. I wouldn’t be surprised if you weren’t coming over the top slightly too. This would create contact at a glancing blow instead of more direct contact. The only person playing a fade purposely would be someone who does not need or care about power.
This is a very useful training exercise to encourage shoulder mobility. My biggest discovery was getting a full shoulder turn by consciously turning the shoulders around a stable spine. . .at the same time I stopped trying to totally restrict by hips and legs to get a good coil and weight shift.
Hi Peter,
Great discoveries! For those of us that have gone through extensive anatomical training and kinesiology we often forget some of you don’t “see” things the way we do. It seems as though you’ve grasped an important relationship between the shoulders and spine… well done. The “hip restriction” is also an interesting concept. In certain golfers it can look like their hips are restricted when in fact, they aren’t consciously restricting them at all. They simply have a lot of spine rotation mobility. I can see where the feet and trail knee would be good things to “anchor” but if the spine doesn’t have much rotation then the backswing would get quite small if the hips weren’t allowed to rotate.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
Very good reminder ,Jeremy.I find the drill sitting on the stabilty ball rotating the upper boy while holding a medecine ball the most useful of those demonstrated by Jeremy :you can’t cheat with this one !
Any way,since seeing Professor GROBER study of the golf swing ,I know that an over rotation or an exaggerated rotation going back(For which I was striving for ! ) is completely useless “Better is the enemy of good “.Or “Keep it smple stupid ”
What IS really important is the acceleration with which you rotate forwards ,not just the speed …
Totally agree with you. Though it does help to have ample time to accelerate our rotational segments in the downswing, it’s much more important that we know how to use proper sequencing, acceleration and segmental stabilization for efficient power.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
Jeremy, Can you use exercise bands tied to a door to gain core strength?
I have those here now.
Also when I do rotate my shoulders I very seldom feel tightness in the core.
Does this mean I need to resist the lower body more?
Hi Louis,
Bands will work great. Have it connected to a door but make sure it’s connected directly off our right or left shoulder (rather than facing the door).
Keys to getting the core to feel the rotation:
1. Keep the arms (especially the elbows) straight the entire movement (two arms and your chest will make a triangle – keep this triangle!)
2. Don’t let the hips, knees or feet move during the turn. Even when I have my players sit they still try to cheat – no lower body movement!
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
I know I need to work on the disassociation between upper and lower body. But I notice the issue most on my downswing, when I want my shoulders to hang back as my lower body uncoils. That seems the converse of what these exercises do since they stabilize the lower body and rotate the upper. Are there other exercises that would help to disassociate the upper and lower body while rotating the lower body “under” the arms and chest?
One other question: do we want to practice not rotating the hips at all? Don’t we want them to turn 45 degrees if the shoulders are turning 90?
Hi Bill,
Here’s 3 videos I found quickly under the ‘FLEXIBILITY’ link on the home page:
1. How to Increase Hip Separation in the Downswing
2. The Hip Swivel Exercise
3. Build Your Lower Body Strength for More Power
As for the second question concerning hip rotation… when you’re training for spine rotation mobility or strength it’s absolutely necessary to keep the lower body and pelvis as still as possible. In the golf swing it’s completely different. Some people are physically restricted in either flexibility or strength in order to reach the 90deg/45deg ratio you speak of in the golf swing.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
Paul and Jeremy ,There’s another way to work on this dissociation upper/lower body ,except it’s a bit weird and looking as if you were playing ghosts out of a scare Movie!
It’s ” THE TORSO BURNER ” : a stick with two HEAVY chains at each end :you have Différent possible exercises :the ” TWIST ” a cross the hips ,or the ” SHOULDER TURNS ” the stick a cross the shoulders .
10 seconds full Speed bursts .
I guarantee NeXT day you”l find your core has worked hard .
There’s also the ” POWER BALL” ,a médecine ball dangling at the end of a rope ,You Turn it both sides banging a wall behind you ,in 10 second bursts ….
These are ” exotic ” drills for crazy guys like me ,not for sensible people!
This website uses cookies to improve your experience. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. AcceptRejectRead More
Privacy & Cookies Policy
Privacy Overview
This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience.
Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. These cookies do not store any personal information.
Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website.
14 Responses to “How To Increase Your Shoulder Turn Around A Stable Base”
September 30, 2012
jimmarlowI am 70 years old with degerative disk problems in my lower back. I just took a video of my swing and it appears that I have a problem with separation betweem my lower and upper body. It looks that my lower body wants to turn back along with my shoulders in my backswing causing my head and spine angle to come up. It looks like a similar thing happens on my followthrough with my hands going up too high instead of around.
What would you recommend for someone like me to get more separation for a better shoulder turn?
October 1, 2012
Paul WilsonJim, You are coming out of it on the way back because your body feels the tightness and wants to relieve it. This is human nature. You need to be turning back as far as YOU can not as far as I or other people can. If you can only get to 70 degrees don’t try to go back farther. So you stabilize the lower body and start turning your shoulders back. Once you feel the stretch/tightness you are done. Hinge your wrists fully to get the club to the top. Once you are at the top you need to then work on starting down with your downswing trigger. In doing so, you go to the touch the legs position. If you are coming out of it in the through swing you are trying to hit it too hard with the arms. The harder you hit the more you will look to see what you hit. So obviously you need to turn the arms off and power the swing with the lower body.
Also, you should not be looking for your ball until after you hit the ball. If you do you will be maintaining the spine angle through the shot. I think one position you are forgetting is this one:
Spine Angle Follow Through: https://ignitiongolf.com/follow-through-eyes-tilted
I am assuming you purchased a video golf lesson. That is why you sent those swing. I really do not have time to watch swings from people because if I start then everyone will send in their swing and I will have even less of a life than I already have. We offer this as a separate service. My assistant watches the swings and send you back your own lesson explaining what to work on. You can find out more here:
http://paulwilsongolf.com/las-vegas-golf-lessons/video-golf-lessons.htm
October 1, 2012
Jeremy KlinkhamerGreat response Paul. I agree completely that the ability to turn properly is individually specific. Jim, degenerative disc disease in the lumbar spine does make it difficult and painful to move the spine… I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that. Depending on the severity, symptoms can be constant or intermittent. In light of this, dynamic exercise (as I’ve shown throughout the videos) is highly recommended but obviously within reason. I would highly recommend visiting a physical therapist in your local area for proper evaluation and treatment concerning your specific diagnosis. Your MD should be the person to help you get this started and also look at other treatments if necessary.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
December 26, 2013
RaymondCHASTELFor both Paul and Jeremy ,
It’s just fine to be able to rotate fully on THE backswing and THE through swing : i do rotate fairly well since I practise this daily .Where I am bad at is THE SPEED of the forward rotation :I taken THE test shown on video by Paul :speed of THE club headwith arms and wrists only ,speed with THE same plus hip rotation .then finally speed with THE arms plus THE hips plus THE rotation around THE left leg .THE result is that THE increase in speed from THE hips and THE rotation over THE left leg is minimal over THE SPEED it THe arms only .
I keep working on this weakness continually withno result .
Probably Th
December 26, 2013
Paul WilsonRaymond,
I did a tip on using the Ultimate Swing Trainer for hip speed here:
DRILL: How To Get Faster Hip Rotation: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-faster-hip-rotation/
Then you need to be constantly be working on lag and wrist release drills. You said you played a fade. In saying this at your level I know your wrists are too tight. This tightness is holding the face open slightly through impact. I wouldn’t be surprised if you weren’t coming over the top slightly too. This would create contact at a glancing blow instead of more direct contact. The only person playing a fade purposely would be someone who does not need or care about power.
You should be doing this constantly:
DRILL: Lag And Release Drill: https://ignitiongolf.com/lag-release-drill
Finally, you could always do a video golf lesson with us so we can see what you are doing instead of spending a ton of money on a machine that may or may not help. You can find out more here: http://paulwilsongolf.com/las-vegas-golf-lessons/video-golf-lessons.htm
March 5, 2015
PeterEspositoJeremy and Paul,
This is a very useful training exercise to encourage shoulder mobility. My biggest discovery was getting a full shoulder turn by consciously turning the shoulders around a stable spine. . .at the same time I stopped trying to totally restrict by hips and legs to get a good coil and weight shift.
Peter
March 5, 2015
Jeremy KlinkhamerHi Peter,
Great discoveries! For those of us that have gone through extensive anatomical training and kinesiology we often forget some of you don’t “see” things the way we do. It seems as though you’ve grasped an important relationship between the shoulders and spine… well done. The “hip restriction” is also an interesting concept. In certain golfers it can look like their hips are restricted when in fact, they aren’t consciously restricting them at all. They simply have a lot of spine rotation mobility. I can see where the feet and trail knee would be good things to “anchor” but if the spine doesn’t have much rotation then the backswing would get quite small if the hips weren’t allowed to rotate.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
March 5, 2015
RaymondCHASTELVery good reminder ,Jeremy.I find the drill sitting on the stabilty ball rotating the upper boy while holding a medecine ball the most useful of those demonstrated by Jeremy :you can’t cheat with this one !
Any way,since seeing Professor GROBER study of the golf swing ,I know that an over rotation or an exaggerated rotation going back(For which I was striving for ! ) is completely useless “Better is the enemy of good “.Or “Keep it smple stupid ”
What IS really important is the acceleration with which you rotate forwards ,not just the speed …
March 5, 2015
Jeremy KlinkhamerTotally agree with you. Though it does help to have ample time to accelerate our rotational segments in the downswing, it’s much more important that we know how to use proper sequencing, acceleration and segmental stabilization for efficient power.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
March 5, 2015
LouisBondJeremy, Can you use exercise bands tied to a door to gain core strength?
I have those here now.
Also when I do rotate my shoulders I very seldom feel tightness in the core.
Does this mean I need to resist the lower body more?
Thanks Guys,
Louis
March 5, 2015
Jeremy KlinkhamerHi Louis,
Bands will work great. Have it connected to a door but make sure it’s connected directly off our right or left shoulder (rather than facing the door).
Keys to getting the core to feel the rotation:
1. Keep the arms (especially the elbows) straight the entire movement (two arms and your chest will make a triangle – keep this triangle!)
2. Don’t let the hips, knees or feet move during the turn. Even when I have my players sit they still try to cheat – no lower body movement!
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
March 6, 2015
Bill FreemanHi Jeremy,
I know I need to work on the disassociation between upper and lower body. But I notice the issue most on my downswing, when I want my shoulders to hang back as my lower body uncoils. That seems the converse of what these exercises do since they stabilize the lower body and rotate the upper. Are there other exercises that would help to disassociate the upper and lower body while rotating the lower body “under” the arms and chest?
One other question: do we want to practice not rotating the hips at all? Don’t we want them to turn 45 degrees if the shoulders are turning 90?
Thanks,
Bill
March 6, 2015
Jeremy KlinkhamerHi Bill,
Here’s 3 videos I found quickly under the ‘FLEXIBILITY’ link on the home page:
1. How to Increase Hip Separation in the Downswing
2. The Hip Swivel Exercise
3. Build Your Lower Body Strength for More Power
As for the second question concerning hip rotation… when you’re training for spine rotation mobility or strength it’s absolutely necessary to keep the lower body and pelvis as still as possible. In the golf swing it’s completely different. Some people are physically restricted in either flexibility or strength in order to reach the 90deg/45deg ratio you speak of in the golf swing.
Jeremy Klinkhamer, PT
April 17, 2015
RaymondCHASTELPaul and Jeremy ,There’s another way to work on this dissociation upper/lower body ,except it’s a bit weird and looking as if you were playing ghosts out of a scare Movie!
It’s ” THE TORSO BURNER ” : a stick with two HEAVY chains at each end :you have Différent possible exercises :the ” TWIST ” a cross the hips ,or the ” SHOULDER TURNS ” the stick a cross the shoulders .
10 seconds full Speed bursts .
I guarantee NeXT day you”l find your core has worked hard .
There’s also the ” POWER BALL” ,a médecine ball dangling at the end of a rope ,You Turn it both sides banging a wall behind you ,in 10 second bursts ….
These are ” exotic ” drills for crazy guys like me ,not for sensible people!