Can you get to those two check points and swing wrong such as with the hands? Or are those two positions proof that you had good form throughout naturally to the follow-thru position.
If you do something wrong at impact you will not get to these positions unless of course you did some serious manipulation long after the ball was hit. So you are going to this ending to fix the rest of your swing. It’s tough to change when the club is swinging approx. 100 mph. Why not fix the ending when it is moving slower? So stick to hitting this exact position and you will see the rest of your golf swing change.
Paul
-There is only one swing, all that varies is the angle of the wrists. Right?
Then why is it that when i setup with my short irons using the same knee flex (knees should just obstruct view of shoe laces) and parallel arms/thigh plane as when I play driver/5 wood, the head of the clubs can’t even touch the ground, no matter how much I straighten my wrists. Do I need these short irons lengthened. We’re talking about 10-12 inches longer (I’m 6’4″)? I have a standard off the shelf set.
-As the hips turn left through the swing, the left knee must lock out. Right?
To be able to hit the ball with shorter irons, I adjust my stance to suit; I increase knee flex and torso lean (keeping shoulder, knee and feet in a line). As I turn the hips left I must also maintain this new elevation in order not to top the ball; if I straighten the left leg I top it. I end up sort of sliding.
You can post any question here but if you can find a video address your problem and post it there that would be better. Then it will help others who also watch that video.
Paul this is a bit of repeat of the first comment, am i correct in that ,if i get to the proper finish position consistanrty with arms and knees,i should have hit a decent shot. i feel like i reach these follow through positions ,when i see my swing on video it looks like i am still coming over the top ,not enough lower body at start . If i work harder on the follow through position will this promote a more consistant lower body start. Trying all the drills finding it hard to break the over the top move at start of downswing
Yes, you need to hit these positions. You need to do so by using your body first then the powerless arms follow.
In firing the lower body first the upper body should be tilting to the right or staying behind the ball when you are in the downswing. This staying behind the ball or tilt determines the path from the inside. If you are coming over the top you are shifting too soon onto the left leg and/or starting the arms first. So keep trying to turn off the arms. Keep working on getting separation between the hips and club coming down.
If you are still having trouble just manually tilt your body right in the downswing so you get used to it. This is a quick fix but without you here it is a little difficult to give you the exact feeling. Maybe you should do a Video Golf Lesson so we can check it. I rarely ever see anyone doing these positions exactly as I want them too. For the sake of a few bucks we can eliminate all doubt: Go here for more information: http://paulwilsongolf.com/las-vegas-golf-lessons/video-golf-lessons.htm
I find that if I hit those two positions that it usually results in a good shot, however I can hit the positions and still pull the ball. I then can tilt back at the start of my downswing ( your recent suggestion) and it tends to straighten it out.
I have been working hard at effortless arms and when using my driver I had a feeling that was unique to me and was wondering if this feeling is an indication that I am closer.
The feeling is very relaxed arms and then I feel an involuntary rolling over of my wrists at impact with the solid contact and a straight ball flight. Is that feeling of a loose involuntary rotation of the wrists the feeling we are striving for? It’s what I feel when I do your over the ball practice swing.
If you are pulling you are starting your arms first. This is a fact. You can keep tilting until you are used to it as a quick fix. Firing the lower body should be doing this but just explaining it to people sometimes does not allow them to get it. I really need to get you doing it live. It takes fast hip rotation allowing them to get ahead of the hands coming down (separation). If you are not working on it in drills you will never get it. This is because you are an adult. Kids do not have power in the arms so they get it immediately.
So yes, I want the arms looser. Yes, it is involuntary roll over. This occurs because they are loose. The club should feel heavy and it should feel like you did not hit anything at all.
Paul, I’m looking forward to coming out to Vegas in a few weeks for three days of lessons with you. I love all the tips and have a few questions about the follow through. I have been working on a video of Mo Norman’s, and am having great success with emulating his rather bizarre follow through. He talks about pointing the hands toward the target at the finish, and the results have been great. Why do you think it is necessary to have the club finish in back of the head?
Thanks,
Bob
It is necessary because the mass club is swinging at 90 degrees to the axis (body) plus you can do the exact same swing every time. If you hit this position you will look like you can shoot 65. If your club is parallel today and parallel 5 years years from now it is the same position. It also indicates your wrists are re-hinging properly.
Sure, you may be getting half decent results right now. Maybe this is because you are actually thinking of getting through to this follow through position instead of hitting the ball. If you do not hit the exact same spot every time I am worried it will fall apart in the future.
There has to be a reason some many people hit bad 3 woods shots. I just thought about the common denominator. Hitting too hard is it. I would rather hit a good 3 wood short than a topped or thin 3 wood. Once you keep hitting them well you gain confidence.
Paul ,There must also be a reason related to the clubhead Speed :itopping or hitting thin the fairway Woods never happens when I “wield “the 5 Wood .So I have taken to Play this club instead OF the 3 Wood :it givres a Nice high flight ,but OF course it’s shorter than a Well struck 3 Wood .There’s a hell OF a difference between a 15
Once you get to 3 wood you are at that point of very little loft on the club so it is real easy to lose it and of course it is getting close to a driver so we want to go all out with it. Just do some easy 3 woods. Get confident and you will be able to increase later. You just have to see some good shots with it so you know you will hit it well.
Paul ,I know you don’t like fiddling with the stance and posture.
However I tried this morning ,on the golf course ,hitting my driver off the tee with a slightly closed stance ,clubface orientated towards the target ,so as to draw the balI.(I read that BOOBY LOCKE ,who was not very long ,did it consistently in all his shots down to the putter )
I gained distance ,roughly 10/20 yards of carry and roll .
I did feel uncomfortable with this closed stance ,and on one occasion ,I didn’t draw the ball at all and it flew directly into a tree on the right side of the fairway.
Could you please comment on this “experiment ”
By the way ,I did hit some very good 3 woods off the turf ,but I missed some also ,always the same reason :STUCK ON THE TRAILING LEG ,no rotation forwards …
Another final question :in your method ,you rotate forwards .
Another instructor (MARTIN CHUCK -REVOLUTION GOLF )advises to “lift “your body when going forwards in the through swing.
I don’t do it at all (I don’tfeel in any case ) and on the contrary ,I try to “stay down on the ball”,so as not to top it or not hit it thin .
Any comments ?
If you are closing your stance you are pulling it. When you pull it you de-loft it so it will always go a little farther. The problem as you found out is when you actually swing down the line you are aimed. You end up hitting it straight right (which is actually a straight shot relative to where you are aimed).
I really don’t like this but Hogan and Moe Norman did it too. Maybe it was a quest for power in these players as well.
Why would you lift your body going through the ball? I guess when you are very tilted at address and doing a reverse pivot in your golf swing this is the only way you can clear the club and stop skying it.
How much do you lift? How do you practice lifting? How do you gain consistency lifting up? Did the best players of all time lift through impact? Why do you need to lift? What is the logic behind lifting? How does lifting effect the physics behind the mass that is swinging? Does Iron Byron lift?
Paul ,Thanks for the answer.I ‘ll stop my experiments with closing my stance,I really feel uneasy and unsecure when I do so:if I miss the draw ,then the ball goes straight right as it did yesterday on one occasion and I lost all the benefit of the so called draw by hitting a tree on the right side of the fairway.
As for the “lifting”in the follow through advised by MARTIN CHUCK ,I guess it comes fromh is position at address where he has most of his weight on the left leg ,as when you adopt the STACK and TILT method
Paul ,I agree with you: I look up too many golf sites ,out of curiosity .REVOLUTION GOLF ,where initially you teached ,is one of them.
But their lessons are far too short and superficial ,not in depth I mean ,while you,you “dig in “in your excellent videos .
MARTIN CHUCK is their most” brilliant “demonstrator,but he’s often very difficult to understand ,all the more that he”s a “crypto “STACK AND TILT player ,though he claims he is not ,but says he is a MOE NORMAN admirer and a GEORGE KNUDSON follower (He is not !)
The guys from JIM Mc LEAN are good also ,but also very ,very superficial
I just want to explain it in a way you actually know exactly why you should be doing it. I hate guess-work. So I will continue to do what I do. Hopefully, words gets out.
I wish when I started following your teaching method 8-9 years ago I mastered the touch the legs and touch the head before I did anything else. I heard you, I saw you do it. Before I could execute those positions routinely I began to hit balls and play rounds of golf. Notice I said hit balls. You are teaching the golf “swing” not hit the golf ball. I get it. I just do not do it. I score better than I used to, but I am not consistent.
You should have told me “Peter come back only when you have mastered the follow through position. Then and only then should you put a ball on the tee swing at it. If you can not swing and make contact with a ball on the tee and still get to the follow through position. Keep practicing that and only that. After that you are ready for the next lesson.” I was too eager to play in place of practice.
A second big thing is to be able to separate the lower body from the arms and shoulder to start the down swing. Yes, uncoil from the bottom that is what you teach. The powerless arms will follow. The word “separate” to me is key. One of your latest tips on how to practice this move with someone holding a club horizontal in front of you. Or to use the upright of golf cart to feel the separation of the hips from the shoulders and arms has been meaningful.
I have a regular partner who has a reverse “C” swing with his club finishing straight down his back. As a senior he is an excellent player and still hits it a fair distance. Why is this type of swing and follow through position no longer seen as a good model? Many golfers of yesteryear swung that way and even more recently Colin Montgomery.
Hi Paul,
I watched this tip some time ago, and it took some time to really understand its value. Having worked hard with a pro on my swing, I know today that the “final position” never lies about one thing : if I did not execute my swing on the proper plan all along, there is no way I can get the exact position. Conversely, if the fundamentals are there, ending up with a good finish position happens basically on its own. The only “variable” event will be contact.
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29 Responses to “Hit, Hold and Check Drill”
January 16, 2013
MichaelBlockHi Pau:
Can you get to those two check points and swing wrong such as with the hands? Or are those two positions proof that you had good form throughout naturally to the follow-thru position.
January 16, 2013
Paul WilsonMicheal,
If you do something wrong at impact you will not get to these positions unless of course you did some serious manipulation long after the ball was hit. So you are going to this ending to fix the rest of your swing. It’s tough to change when the club is swinging approx. 100 mph. Why not fix the ending when it is moving slower? So stick to hitting this exact position and you will see the rest of your golf swing change.
January 16, 2013
MichaelBlockPaul I appreciate your advise as it works to have a good, consistent swing.
January 17, 2013
NeilGabbeyPaul
-There is only one swing, all that varies is the angle of the wrists. Right?
Then why is it that when i setup with my short irons using the same knee flex (knees should just obstruct view of shoe laces) and parallel arms/thigh plane as when I play driver/5 wood, the head of the clubs can’t even touch the ground, no matter how much I straighten my wrists. Do I need these short irons lengthened. We’re talking about 10-12 inches longer (I’m 6’4″)? I have a standard off the shelf set.
-As the hips turn left through the swing, the left knee must lock out. Right?
To be able to hit the ball with shorter irons, I adjust my stance to suit; I increase knee flex and torso lean (keeping shoulder, knee and feet in a line). As I turn the hips left I must also maintain this new elevation in order not to top the ball; if I straighten the left leg I top it. I end up sort of sliding.
January 19, 2013
NeilGabbeyOK I get it. These comments are about the video, not about each individual problem you have.
January 20, 2013
Paul WilsonNeil,
You can post any question here but if you can find a video address your problem and post it there that would be better. Then it will help others who also watch that video.
March 29, 2013
barrybowerPaul this is a bit of repeat of the first comment, am i correct in that ,if i get to the proper finish position consistanrty with arms and knees,i should have hit a decent shot. i feel like i reach these follow through positions ,when i see my swing on video it looks like i am still coming over the top ,not enough lower body at start . If i work harder on the follow through position will this promote a more consistant lower body start. Trying all the drills finding it hard to break the over the top move at start of downswing
March 31, 2013
Paul WilsonBarry,
Yes, you need to hit these positions. You need to do so by using your body first then the powerless arms follow.
In firing the lower body first the upper body should be tilting to the right or staying behind the ball when you are in the downswing. This staying behind the ball or tilt determines the path from the inside. If you are coming over the top you are shifting too soon onto the left leg and/or starting the arms first. So keep trying to turn off the arms. Keep working on getting separation between the hips and club coming down.
If you are still having trouble just manually tilt your body right in the downswing so you get used to it. This is a quick fix but without you here it is a little difficult to give you the exact feeling. Maybe you should do a Video Golf Lesson so we can check it. I rarely ever see anyone doing these positions exactly as I want them too. For the sake of a few bucks we can eliminate all doubt: Go here for more information: http://paulwilsongolf.com/las-vegas-golf-lessons/video-golf-lessons.htm
Watch:
Separation: https://ignitiongolf.com/separation
Do this drill constantly:
DRILL: Swing Off Ground: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-swing-off-ground
Drill: Swing Off Ground Variation: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-variation-favorite-drill/
Drill: My Favorite Drill
March 30, 2013
DavidWeinsteinT
March 30, 2013
DavidWeinsteinHi Paul
This bring me to the question of the pre shot routine. Should this “two points check” be part of my prE shot routine?
March 31, 2013
Paul WilsonDavid,
You should be doing 2 practice swings before each shot. When you do them you should be checking these 2 things.
March 30, 2013
jimmarlowHi Paul,
I find that if I hit those two positions that it usually results in a good shot, however I can hit the positions and still pull the ball. I then can tilt back at the start of my downswing ( your recent suggestion) and it tends to straighten it out.
I have been working hard at effortless arms and when using my driver I had a feeling that was unique to me and was wondering if this feeling is an indication that I am closer.
The feeling is very relaxed arms and then I feel an involuntary rolling over of my wrists at impact with the solid contact and a straight ball flight. Is that feeling of a loose involuntary rotation of the wrists the feeling we are striving for? It’s what I feel when I do your over the ball practice swing.
March 31, 2013
Paul WilsonJim,
If you are pulling you are starting your arms first. This is a fact. You can keep tilting until you are used to it as a quick fix. Firing the lower body should be doing this but just explaining it to people sometimes does not allow them to get it. I really need to get you doing it live. It takes fast hip rotation allowing them to get ahead of the hands coming down (separation). If you are not working on it in drills you will never get it. This is because you are an adult. Kids do not have power in the arms so they get it immediately.
So yes, I want the arms looser. Yes, it is involuntary roll over. This occurs because they are loose. The club should feel heavy and it should feel like you did not hit anything at all.
Keep working on this:
Separation: https://ignitiongolf.com/separation
Do this drill constantly:
DRILL: Swing Off Ground: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-swing-off-ground
Drill: Swing Off Ground Variation: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-variation-favorite-drill/
Drill: My Favorite Drill
April 21, 2013
RobertHorganPaul, I’m looking forward to coming out to Vegas in a few weeks for three days of lessons with you. I love all the tips and have a few questions about the follow through. I have been working on a video of Mo Norman’s, and am having great success with emulating his rather bizarre follow through. He talks about pointing the hands toward the target at the finish, and the results have been great. Why do you think it is necessary to have the club finish in back of the head?
Thanks,
Bob
April 23, 2013
Paul WilsonRobert,
It is necessary because the mass club is swinging at 90 degrees to the axis (body) plus you can do the exact same swing every time. If you hit this position you will look like you can shoot 65. If your club is parallel today and parallel 5 years years from now it is the same position. It also indicates your wrists are re-hinging properly.
Sure, you may be getting half decent results right now. Maybe this is because you are actually thinking of getting through to this follow through position instead of hitting the ball. If you do not hit the exact same spot every time I am worried it will fall apart in the future.
Be prepared to make this change.
May 18, 2014
RaymondCHASTELAnother excellent way to auto correct yourself .The ” wrong position ” you d
May 19, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
There has to be a reason some many people hit bad 3 woods shots. I just thought about the common denominator. Hitting too hard is it. I would rather hit a good 3 wood short than a topped or thin 3 wood. Once you keep hitting them well you gain confidence.
May 19, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,There must also be a reason related to the clubhead Speed :itopping or hitting thin the fairway Woods never happens when I “wield “the 5 Wood .So I have taken to Play this club instead OF the 3 Wood :it givres a Nice high flight ,but OF course it’s shorter than a Well struck 3 Wood .There’s a hell OF a difference between a 15
May 19, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Once you get to 3 wood you are at that point of very little loft on the club so it is real easy to lose it and of course it is getting close to a driver so we want to go all out with it. Just do some easy 3 woods. Get confident and you will be able to increase later. You just have to see some good shots with it so you know you will hit it well.
May 20, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,I know you don’t like fiddling with the stance and posture.
However I tried this morning ,on the golf course ,hitting my driver off the tee with a slightly closed stance ,clubface orientated towards the target ,so as to draw the balI.(I read that BOOBY LOCKE ,who was not very long ,did it consistently in all his shots down to the putter )
I gained distance ,roughly 10/20 yards of carry and roll .
I did feel uncomfortable with this closed stance ,and on one occasion ,I didn’t draw the ball at all and it flew directly into a tree on the right side of the fairway.
Could you please comment on this “experiment ”
By the way ,I did hit some very good 3 woods off the turf ,but I missed some also ,always the same reason :STUCK ON THE TRAILING LEG ,no rotation forwards …
Another final question :in your method ,you rotate forwards .
Another instructor (MARTIN CHUCK -REVOLUTION GOLF )advises to “lift “your body when going forwards in the through swing.
I don’t do it at all (I don’tfeel in any case ) and on the contrary ,I try to “stay down on the ball”,so as not to top it or not hit it thin .
Any comments ?
May 20, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
If you are closing your stance you are pulling it. When you pull it you de-loft it so it will always go a little farther. The problem as you found out is when you actually swing down the line you are aimed. You end up hitting it straight right (which is actually a straight shot relative to where you are aimed).
I really don’t like this but Hogan and Moe Norman did it too. Maybe it was a quest for power in these players as well.
Why would you lift your body going through the ball? I guess when you are very tilted at address and doing a reverse pivot in your golf swing this is the only way you can clear the club and stop skying it.
How much do you lift? How do you practice lifting? How do you gain consistency lifting up? Did the best players of all time lift through impact? Why do you need to lift? What is the logic behind lifting? How does lifting effect the physics behind the mass that is swinging? Does Iron Byron lift?
May 21, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,Thanks for the answer.I ‘ll stop my experiments with closing my stance,I really feel uneasy and unsecure when I do so:if I miss the draw ,then the ball goes straight right as it did yesterday on one occasion and I lost all the benefit of the so called draw by hitting a tree on the right side of the fairway.
As for the “lifting”in the follow through advised by MARTIN CHUCK ,I guess it comes fromh is position at address where he has most of his weight on the left leg ,as when you adopt the STACK and TILT method
May 21, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Yes, good choice. I think you are playing with fire.
May 22, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,I agree with you: I look up too many golf sites ,out of curiosity .REVOLUTION GOLF ,where initially you teached ,is one of them.
But their lessons are far too short and superficial ,not in depth I mean ,while you,you “dig in “in your excellent videos .
MARTIN CHUCK is their most” brilliant “demonstrator,but he’s often very difficult to understand ,all the more that he”s a “crypto “STACK AND TILT player ,though he claims he is not ,but says he is a MOE NORMAN admirer and a GEORGE KNUDSON follower (He is not !)
The guys from JIM Mc LEAN are good also ,but also very ,very superficial
May 22, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Different strokes for different folks.
I just want to explain it in a way you actually know exactly why you should be doing it. I hate guess-work. So I will continue to do what I do. Hopefully, words gets out.
March 17, 2017
PETERMCMULLENI wish when I started following your teaching method 8-9 years ago I mastered the touch the legs and touch the head before I did anything else. I heard you, I saw you do it. Before I could execute those positions routinely I began to hit balls and play rounds of golf. Notice I said hit balls. You are teaching the golf “swing” not hit the golf ball. I get it. I just do not do it. I score better than I used to, but I am not consistent.
You should have told me “Peter come back only when you have mastered the follow through position. Then and only then should you put a ball on the tee swing at it. If you can not swing and make contact with a ball on the tee and still get to the follow through position. Keep practicing that and only that. After that you are ready for the next lesson.” I was too eager to play in place of practice.
A second big thing is to be able to separate the lower body from the arms and shoulder to start the down swing. Yes, uncoil from the bottom that is what you teach. The powerless arms will follow. The word “separate” to me is key. One of your latest tips on how to practice this move with someone holding a club horizontal in front of you. Or to use the upright of golf cart to feel the separation of the hips from the shoulders and arms has been meaningful.
I expect I will always be a work in progress.
March 18, 2017
daviddonaldsonI have a regular partner who has a reverse “C” swing with his club finishing straight down his back. As a senior he is an excellent player and still hits it a fair distance. Why is this type of swing and follow through position no longer seen as a good model? Many golfers of yesteryear swung that way and even more recently Colin Montgomery.
March 18, 2017
PierreBourgeoisHi Paul,
I watched this tip some time ago, and it took some time to really understand its value. Having worked hard with a pro on my swing, I know today that the “final position” never lies about one thing : if I did not execute my swing on the proper plan all along, there is no way I can get the exact position. Conversely, if the fundamentals are there, ending up with a good finish position happens basically on its own. The only “variable” event will be contact.
March 18, 2017
StianOttersenHi Paul. I think I need to start doing this also when I’m out playing to get me to focus more on the positions and less on the golf ball. Good idea?