Learn From Hogan’s Shoulder Rotation

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Paul Wilson

Paul Wilson is the creator of Swing Machine Golf and founder of Ignition Golf. Paul's golf swing technique is based on the Iron Byron swing machine. YouTube Channels: Paul Wilson Golf and Ignition Golf Tips. Please Join me on Google+

31 Responses to “Learn From Hogan’s Shoulder Rotation”

  1. February 20, 2013

    DavidJones

    Paul, is it also correct to say that one’s shoulder turn should be perpendicular to the spine? That is the appearance when you swing in your videos and seems most apparent in the two photos of Hogan’s swing.

    • February 21, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      David,

      This is correct. Is it even possible not to have the spine and shoulders at 90 degress.

      • February 21, 2013

        DavidJones

        Actually, yes. You can drop one shoulder which raises the other without a corresponding adjustment in the spine, And from time to time I manage to do it in my swing with resultant poor shots and interesting back twinges.

        Thanks as always for your thoughtful lessons.

        DMJ

  2. February 20, 2013

    HermanKoh

    Hi Paul,

    I am having difficulty hitting out from the fairway rough. Are there any tips you can share or better still do you have a video I can watch as I can’t seem to find it from the toolbars at the website? Thanks a million.

    Herman

    • February 20, 2013

      HermanKoh

      Sorry Paul, found your tip on the rough. Please ignore my above email. TQ. Herman

  3. February 20, 2013

    MichaelPhilbrick

    I just figured out that my shoulder angle was too steep the other day. Now all of a sudden my swing came together and I’m hitting all my clubs straight and consistent. I’m also bringing in my right elbow in a bit closer on the downswing. I can’t wait to play 18 today to really test it. This new site is the best. I like and benefit from the whole team.

    • February 21, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Michael,

      This is what I want to hear. I know a lot of people are turning on the wrong angle. This is why I keep doing tips on it. Once people grasp the concept of staying taller and getting the coil it becomes a whole new world.

      • February 23, 2013

        MichaelPhilbrick

        Update on testing out my new skill on the course…Wow! Huge improvement. My handicap is 17 and my last 2 games since writing in I scored 7 and 9 over on tough courses. But that’s not all. On one hole I was planning on laying up to, I hit the ball 30 or 40 yards longer than ever and got the ball to 7 feet of the hole to putt it in for my first eagle.

        I’ve been playing for a couple years and I’ve been learning from Paul for a little over a year now and if I hadn’t received a shoulder injury I would probably have a single digit handicap right now but I’m definitely on the right track and I feel I made a very good decision to trust my swing to Paul. Thanks,

        -Mike

        • February 24, 2013

          Paul Wilson

          Michael,

          That’s great news. I love hearing.

          Wow! Your first eagle is a great achievement. Most people never experience this!!! Good job.

          Please be careful as you progress into the future. This is what the tip was the other day: http://ignitiongolf.com/lose-your-golf-swing/

          I say this because it is exciting to hit great shots so you will want more and more. Stick to a pace you can handle until you are good at it. Then and only then should you speed the the lower body a little more. If you do lose it immediately slow down and swing at 50%. Then you will get it back in no time.

  4. February 21, 2013

    RaymondCHASTEL

    Dear Paul ,The subject of the tilt of the shoulders has been extensively studied by JIM HARDY in his book”THE PLANE TRUTH FOR GOLFERS “.
    To summarize the ONE PLANE SWINGER tilts more from the waist than the TWO PLANE SWINGER.I have tried both postures and I find that I am not at all at ease with the more tilted posture required for the ONE PLANE SWING .I try to go with the BEN HOGAN swing which is flat ,and utilizes more the natural gravity of the club to swing and less the rotational/centrifugal force..I understand therefore that you advocate the “Classical ” TWO PLANE SWING .This suits me well as being more natural .
    Kind regards

    • February 22, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Raymond,

      You are correct. The one plane method does want you to be tilted more. I do not like this tilted position because I want you to feel torque. By standing taller you can coil and uncoil. Oh yeah, the best players of all time where not tilted like this. Although Hogan had a flatter swing he did not tilt severely. This was one of the points of the tip.

      For me, I think a 2 plane swing with the lead arm slightly higher then the shoulder, a tight coil and more level shoulder turn creates a consistent movement. The portrayal of the 2 plane swing that I have seen is nothing like what I teach. I think it is exaggerated so people will lean towards a one-plane swing. If you like the 2 plane swing I advocate please keep doing it. It works great if done properly.

  5. February 21, 2013

    RaymondCHASTEL

    Another question ,Dear Paul :do you recommend the” inverted K “position at address which was in favor a long time ago (See Percy BOOMER “ON LEARNING GOLF “) Of course I am an Old Timer (78 years of age ) and was taught that way!But still Handicap 7 !

    • February 22, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Raymond,

      I have never thought of or will think of the setup as a Reverse K. This tilted setup is an attempt to get people to over-tilt at setup to get the tilt of the body behind the ball through impact. I get the tilt through impact by getting people to use the body properly. I don’t like band-aids. Just follow the setup steps on this site and try to not over tilt. You don’t need to. You just need to get the lower body moving first in the downswing.

  6. February 22, 2013

    RaymondCHASTEL

    Dear Paul ,Could you comment on the “weighted grip “developed by BOCCIERI adding 40 g in the grip ,endorsed suprisingly by JACK NICKLAUS .It is supposed to reduce dispersion of the shots by quietening the wrists .I have use d the heavy putter from BOCCIERI and didn’t suite gel use d to it .

    • February 22, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Raymond,

      Many years ago I had a weight made to put on the end of the club. I thought it would help in some way. Not sure if it did anything or not but it did make the club feel light. I do like the light feeling of the club as opposed to the full heavy club. Not sure if this will help or not.

      I really don’t promote too many training aids. I just find they do not work.

  7. February 22, 2013

    DarrelStutesman

    Paul,

    I was hitting on the range yesterday & my tilt was as you described but i tried something new that felt good with the same shoulder rotation. I started the club more out and up and rerouted it with my lower body on the downswing; it made my clubhead speed feel about 10 to 15 miles faster. I was hitting it farther, higher and straighter and if there was any error in direction it was a slight right flight. I don’t wan to practice a fault, what do you think?

    Darrel

    • February 22, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Darrel,

      I like this move. When people think they are taking it more outside they usually take it back perfectly. This is because most people take it too deep inside. The last time we met you did seem uncomfortable with the swing so maybe this will get you back on track. I really like the change of direction with the lower body. This is a great feeling and you are getting more power and better contact for doing it. Please keep doing what you are doing. Just be careful not to pick it up going back. You can check this in a mirror.

      • February 26, 2013

        RaymondCHASTEL

        I do a move similar to Darrell :I place a highway c

        • February 27, 2013

          Paul Wilson

          Raymond,

          That’s fine if you are not picking the club up too much. Also, the club should be coming inside the cone because you are starting the downswing with your lower body and letting the arms be powerless not because you are re-routing the club with your arms.

  8. March 29, 2013

    paulelliott

    I hit the ball much better with only a half swing in the take away what are your views on that?
    I cant for some reason get a full shoulder turn when swinging on the course but can do when taking practice swing!

    • March 29, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Paul,

      I don’t mind a shorter swing but not too short. Too short and this is a young person’s swing. You are chopping off the shoulder turn when you do a full swing because you are tightening up and trying to hit the ball. In doing so you are rushing the swing. Go way slower. Stop at the top, check it, make it go all the way back then hit it. If you do a drill like this you will get used to it. If you just keep doing your swing you will never change it. Do something different. Then get used to the new move. All of this stuff takes understanding and practice.

  9. August 10, 2013

    PaulLucas

    I’ve just found ben Hogan’s swings and videos that guy must have been a hell of an athlete in his day. The loverly flat backswing with the knee bends and foot positions he must have generated enormous power. I’ve tried to copy him over the last few days and incorporating loose wrists and a good lower body turn has produced some surprising results.

    • August 11, 2013

      Paul Wilson

      Paul,

      I really don’t like people being that flat. You just cannot hit the ball as far with that type of swing. If you could, every long driver would be doing it. I haven’t seen one yet.

  10. September 15, 2014

    Chris

    Hi Paul,

    this is kind of off the topic question, but I couldn’t find any other place to post it.
    I’ve been wanting to ask you on how I should pick the flexibility of my golf clubs.
    Is your swing speed the only factor in changing the flexibility of your clubs? If so,
    what swing speed would you need from Reg. -> Stiff -> Extra Stiff?

    Thanks.

    • September 15, 2014

      Paul Wilson

      Chris,

      This is not the only factor. I remember a retired gentleman I used to know was fitting by Titleist. He got his maximum distance with steel stiff shafts. H was over 60 yrs old and had been using regular shafts all his life. You really need to go to a professional clubfitter preferably with a Trackman system to find out the exact shafts you should be using. I did this and finally got the spin on my driver down through having the right shaft. This gained me tons of distance because I never got any roll on my drives for years. Just do a search in your area. Most clubfitters nowadays have Trackman or similar high end launch monitor. It will be worth it.

  11. Hi Paul
    Great clip once again
    I have noticed with my swing that my shoulder plane is a little steeper than yours
    As I find it very tough to get my arms up without actually using them when my plane is very flat
    But if I tilt a littl more its a lot easier to use no arms at all in the swing.
    Is this ok??
    Ps my chest is still pointing way past the ball
    Also being 6,4 may have something to do with it?
    Many thanks.

    • David,

      Glad you liked it. Thanks.

      You will be setting the club manually at the top until you train them to go up there. Yes, you will feel your arms when you do this. Like I have said in previous tips, if you are working on positions you will feel your arms. Once you get it you turn them off.

      First, you need to make sure you have the right clubs. I just taught someone who was 6’2″. He was was too tilted. He would need clubs at least 1″ longer and 2-4 degrees upright. You are even taller so you would need at least this, if not 1.5″ long and 4 up.

      If you do not have clubs like this immediately get your clubs checked. You can send us a shot of your set up before you do so we can make sure you are doing the right setup before changing your clubs.

      If your clubs are okay I need you doing the taller setup. To check it you should not clearly see your toes when you look down at the ball. Peripheral vision you will see them. Clearly you will not. The taller set up allows the coil and uncoil. To get the arms above the shoulder line feel get to about half back and lift them up. Right armpit will feel like you can drop grapefruit from it. Too flat and you are dropping a grape. If you are in this position you will be fine at the top.

      Because it is easier doesn’t mean you are doing it right. I would do a swing analysis with Pete if you haven’t done so already. It is important you are doing this right. That more tilted setup with with a flatter backswing is tough to work on on your own. I fix swings like this all of the time. Feel okay and they hit a few good shots but it will never be anymore than that.

      • Thanks for the reply
        Yes I had my clubs fitted about 18 months ago and they are an inch and a quarter long I think.
        Will work on fixing this.
        I still hit solid shots but I will work on this
        Thanks.

  12. August 1, 2016

    Andypinsky

    Hi Paul I have been following your golf swing method just for a couple of weeks now and the improvement in my my game is just fantastic although I am lacking power off the tee especially I’m going to concentrate on powerless arms more

    Th

    Thanks very much I will keep practisiing

    Andy

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