I feel my arms naturally dropping into the slot at the top of the back swing at the same time my lower body turns hard left (right handed golfer). The weight of the club creates powerful centrifugal force. Is that wrong? Your videos indicate the correct approach is to hold the arms at the top of the back swing and move the hips to initiate the momentum of the wrist and arms to carry the club through the down swing and release I find that harder and less effective than just allowing my weightless arms to fall and create lag and momentum through the swing.
Sounds pretty good. Not sure why you would think anything is wrong with that.
My tips say you are coiling your upper body until you are tight and allowing the club to full hinge. You are then uncoiling and letting the powerless arms come down because they are connected to your body. You are not trying to hit it or help it in any way with your arms. If your turning body makes your arms come down the arms/club will flatten because they are trying to swing at 90 degrees to the axis (body).
In no way have I ever said to hold the arms at the top and wait for the lower to start first. I do say this in a stop at the top drill. You are coiling, you are uncoiling. Your powerless arms and moving down because of the uncoil. You are no physically stopping at the top and waiting for the lower to start. Does it look like I am stopping at the top? No. I am certainly not rushing it. I am letting my body coil get me to the top.
You can move your arms without body but you cannot move your body without moving your arms. If you allow your arms to drop you need them turned off to do so. If you turn your arms off you have to turn your body because you have no other power source. So allowing the arms to drop is powerless arms which is exactly what I teach. You need to be moving your body to generate any kind of power doing this If you just let your arms fall and did nothing with your body you would hit a foot behind the ball.
I really don’t think you are seeing the similarity in what I teach versus what you are doing.
The arms are fully extended after impact not at impact. At impact, your back arm would still be slightly bent because impact is not the widest point of the arc. You need to be working on the release point. Also, I have 8 tips on how to cure a chicken wing. You can find them by typing in “chicken wing” to the far right on the red navigation bar by clicking the magnifying glass. This is a great thing to be working on.
Hi Paul. I’ve spent a golf lifetime “feeling” for the ball with my hands. Giving up this crutch is not easy because you have to believe the clubface will find the ball without you steering it to its destination. Fear of failure prevents one from letting go and believing in the technique. The good news is I’ve finally committed to your method and will keep at it, even through the inevitable poor shots of the learning process.
Trust is a huge factor in getting powerless arms. This is why I tell people to forget the ball when they play, go out on their own with a few balls in their pocket to hit extra shots and swing at 50%. It is all about the movement. If you are not good at it then you need to work on it to get good at it. You cannot expect anything when you take it to the course.
Paul ,I get YOUR message ,but why is it So That BEN. HOGAN said he wished to have three right hands to hit the ball !
And according to those who knew him ,hé had very powerfull and impressive hands .
TOMMY ARMOUR was said to have very powerfull hands
Long drive Champion SEAN FISTER says in his book ” THE LONG DRIVE BIBLE ” That his Speed has a lot to do with his right forearm .
When I swing ,I don’t bother with m’y hands ,I do as you say ,m’y only thought is to keep m’y wrists an hands as loose as possible to enhance the “whipping ” action ,and I vouch itt works ,So in m’y sense you are right ,but what about BEN HOGAN ,TOMMY ARMOUR ,SEAN FISTER then?
Hogan certainly wasn’t wishing he had 3 right hands before he went to the flatter swing. As you may know he had a severe hooking problem. In changing his to the flatter swing he had the face open at the top relative to the left (leading edge should be on the same angle as the left arm). With an open face he could release the club as much as he wanted and not hook it. So I wouldn’t be listening to that line or trying it.
The Iron Byron has not right arm. It has a piece of metal with a hinge and a club attached. The hinge is loose. It gains more power by turning faster not by hitting it with its non-existent right hand. This is fact.
If you do nothing with your hand and arms the mass would swing to its widest point 100% of the time. This is fact too. If the club gets to it widest point it would be releasing the face would be square 100% of the time.
Sean Fister is a long driver. So he is going to wail at it as hard as he can. All he has to do is get one ball in the grid so this too has nothing to do with playing real golf (distance and consistency).
After taking Mike Dobbyn’s arms out of this swing he not only had length but he was very consistent.
Keep in mind I want you never missing fairways and have plenty of power. If you are hitting you are manipulating. Sure, you will get some long ones but you will also be spending most of your time in the trees.
Ha ha thank you always wondered why all great reasons
Thanks I’m finding most of my shots are going pretty much straight so want to learn to hit a fade and use that as my main shot.
I gave up subscriptions to golf magazines because there are so many conflicting article and comments on the golf swing. Some of your other followers ought to practice the philosophy of KISS – keep it simple stupid”. If a person wants to learn to swing a golf club efficiently, pick one instructor, one method, one philosophy and stick to it. When you start reading and following multiple instructions from multiple instructors, confusion will reign. My suggestion is keep it simple follow one instructor who is consistent in his teaching. That is why I have followed your teaching, your website, and way to learn to swing a golf club. That is why I have made three trips to Las Vegas in the past 5 years to keep me on track. It is paying off. I am a better golfer, a better ball striker than I was 11 years ago at age 60 when I took up the game. Last week’s session with you and Pete help me to put one more piece of the puzzle together. Not every swing is perfect. Not every ball is stuck perfectly, but I am getting more consistent and striking the ball better, which is resulting in more enjoyment. This is a game. Let’s enjoy it. I thank you for showing me the way to swing a golf club, not just hit a little white ball. It’s the swing. It’s the Indian not the arrow.
Yes, golf magazines and instruction shows don’t like me too much. I am putting them out of business. So many of my students have canceled subscriptions and quit watching golf on TV. Making golfers better is the last thing the media wants to do.
I was just like everyone else before 1999. For many years I was trying 5 different things on every shot. I other words I was just guessing. The day I though about not hitting and the 3 elements I teach it was like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. The swing became unbelievably simple and I nver guessed. I knew exactly what to work on and how to fix my own swing.
Your swing was looking very good and it was a pleasure to see and work with you again. No joke I really do like your swing and you are right about being very close to where I would want you. I thank you very much for sticking with it and learning. It is and will continue to pay off long into the future.
Paul, I am struggling to understand how your swing achieves compression as it appears that there is very little forward shaft lean at impact. Please comment. Thanks.
You are going to achieve compression because you set up on a slight angle. Then you fire your lower body in the downswing. In this process of firing your lgs you angle even more at impact. This means you are closer to the ground than when you first started. If so the club is then descending as you hits the ball. This means impact is not the widest point of the arc and 1 reason I do not teach impact.
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15 Responses to “Downswing – Which Hand To Use”
February 11, 2015
PeterEspositoI feel my arms naturally dropping into the slot at the top of the back swing at the same time my lower body turns hard left (right handed golfer). The weight of the club creates powerful centrifugal force. Is that wrong? Your videos indicate the correct approach is to hold the arms at the top of the back swing and move the hips to initiate the momentum of the wrist and arms to carry the club through the down swing and release I find that harder and less effective than just allowing my weightless arms to fall and create lag and momentum through the swing.
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonPeter,
Sounds pretty good. Not sure why you would think anything is wrong with that.
My tips say you are coiling your upper body until you are tight and allowing the club to full hinge. You are then uncoiling and letting the powerless arms come down because they are connected to your body. You are not trying to hit it or help it in any way with your arms. If your turning body makes your arms come down the arms/club will flatten because they are trying to swing at 90 degrees to the axis (body).
In no way have I ever said to hold the arms at the top and wait for the lower to start first. I do say this in a stop at the top drill. You are coiling, you are uncoiling. Your powerless arms and moving down because of the uncoil. You are no physically stopping at the top and waiting for the lower to start. Does it look like I am stopping at the top? No. I am certainly not rushing it. I am letting my body coil get me to the top.
You can move your arms without body but you cannot move your body without moving your arms. If you allow your arms to drop you need them turned off to do so. If you turn your arms off you have to turn your body because you have no other power source. So allowing the arms to drop is powerless arms which is exactly what I teach. You need to be moving your body to generate any kind of power doing this If you just let your arms fall and did nothing with your body you would hit a foot behind the ball.
I really don’t think you are seeing the similarity in what I teach versus what you are doing.
February 11, 2015
KennthBovaPaul, are your arms fully extended on impact. If I think of that, then I won’t be doing the chicken wing anymore (hopefully).
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonKen,
The arms are fully extended after impact not at impact. At impact, your back arm would still be slightly bent because impact is not the widest point of the arc. You need to be working on the release point. Also, I have 8 tips on how to cure a chicken wing. You can find them by typing in “chicken wing” to the far right on the red navigation bar by clicking the magnifying glass. This is a great thing to be working on.
Watch:
How to Release the Golf Club: https://ignitiongolf.com/impact-wrist-release
And:
Love Fat Shots: https://ignitiongolf.com/love-fat-shots/
February 11, 2015
RonCalabreseHi Paul. I’ve spent a golf lifetime “feeling” for the ball with my hands. Giving up this crutch is not easy because you have to believe the clubface will find the ball without you steering it to its destination. Fear of failure prevents one from letting go and believing in the technique. The good news is I’ve finally committed to your method and will keep at it, even through the inevitable poor shots of the learning process.
Ron Calabrese
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonRon,
Trust is a huge factor in getting powerless arms. This is why I tell people to forget the ball when they play, go out on their own with a few balls in their pocket to hit extra shots and swing at 50%. It is all about the movement. If you are not good at it then you need to work on it to get good at it. You cannot expect anything when you take it to the course.
Watch:
Powerless Arms – The Trust Factor: https://ignitiongolf.com/the-trust-factor/
Just Try It: https://ignitiongolf.com/just-try-it/
Glad you are going to stick with it. You will get it. Just hear what I am saying. The answers are on this site.
February 11, 2015
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,I get YOUR message ,but why is it So That BEN. HOGAN said he wished to have three right hands to hit the ball !
And according to those who knew him ,hé had very powerfull and impressive hands .
TOMMY ARMOUR was said to have very powerfull hands
Long drive Champion SEAN FISTER says in his book ” THE LONG DRIVE BIBLE ” That his Speed has a lot to do with his right forearm .
When I swing ,I don’t bother with m’y hands ,I do as you say ,m’y only thought is to keep m’y wrists an hands as loose as possible to enhance the “whipping ” action ,and I vouch itt works ,So in m’y sense you are right ,but what about BEN HOGAN ,TOMMY ARMOUR ,SEAN FISTER then?
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Hogan certainly wasn’t wishing he had 3 right hands before he went to the flatter swing. As you may know he had a severe hooking problem. In changing his to the flatter swing he had the face open at the top relative to the left (leading edge should be on the same angle as the left arm). With an open face he could release the club as much as he wanted and not hook it. So I wouldn’t be listening to that line or trying it.
The Iron Byron has not right arm. It has a piece of metal with a hinge and a club attached. The hinge is loose. It gains more power by turning faster not by hitting it with its non-existent right hand. This is fact.
If you do nothing with your hand and arms the mass would swing to its widest point 100% of the time. This is fact too. If the club gets to it widest point it would be releasing the face would be square 100% of the time.
Sean Fister is a long driver. So he is going to wail at it as hard as he can. All he has to do is get one ball in the grid so this too has nothing to do with playing real golf (distance and consistency).
After taking Mike Dobbyn’s arms out of this swing he not only had length but he was very consistent.
Keep in mind I want you never missing fairways and have plenty of power. If you are hitting you are manipulating. Sure, you will get some long ones but you will also be spending most of your time in the trees.
February 11, 2015
DavidCalvertHey paul
Do you have any clips on how to hit a draw or fade?
Also I have to ask why you always wear a red shirt?
Many thanks
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonDavid,
I wear a red short for many reasons.
1. Branding. You always know who I am. I am the guy in the red shirt.
2. You will find my YouTube videos even if I aren’t in the #1 spot.
3. You can find me at the course. He’s the guy in the red shirt.
4. Anytime you see anything red I want you to remember me.
5. The Iron Byron is red and white so am I.
I have a few tips on draw and fade and a blog post.
Should You Hit a Draw or a Fade?: https://ignitiongolf.com/hit-draw-fade/
How To Perfect Drawing and Fading: https://ignitiongolf.com/perfect-drawing-and-fading/
And:
DRAW: http://swingmachineblog.com/how-to-draw-the-golf-ball.html
FADE: http://swingmachineblog.com/how-to-hit-a-fade.html
February 12, 2015
DavidCalvertHa ha thank you always wondered why all great reasons
Thanks I’m finding most of my shots are going pretty much straight so want to learn to hit a fade and use that as my main shot.
February 11, 2015
PETERMCMULLENI gave up subscriptions to golf magazines because there are so many conflicting article and comments on the golf swing. Some of your other followers ought to practice the philosophy of KISS – keep it simple stupid”. If a person wants to learn to swing a golf club efficiently, pick one instructor, one method, one philosophy and stick to it. When you start reading and following multiple instructions from multiple instructors, confusion will reign. My suggestion is keep it simple follow one instructor who is consistent in his teaching. That is why I have followed your teaching, your website, and way to learn to swing a golf club. That is why I have made three trips to Las Vegas in the past 5 years to keep me on track. It is paying off. I am a better golfer, a better ball striker than I was 11 years ago at age 60 when I took up the game. Last week’s session with you and Pete help me to put one more piece of the puzzle together. Not every swing is perfect. Not every ball is stuck perfectly, but I am getting more consistent and striking the ball better, which is resulting in more enjoyment. This is a game. Let’s enjoy it. I thank you for showing me the way to swing a golf club, not just hit a little white ball. It’s the swing. It’s the Indian not the arrow.
February 12, 2015
Paul WilsonPeter,
Yes, golf magazines and instruction shows don’t like me too much. I am putting them out of business. So many of my students have canceled subscriptions and quit watching golf on TV. Making golfers better is the last thing the media wants to do.
I was just like everyone else before 1999. For many years I was trying 5 different things on every shot. I other words I was just guessing. The day I though about not hitting and the 3 elements I teach it was like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. The swing became unbelievably simple and I nver guessed. I knew exactly what to work on and how to fix my own swing.
Your swing was looking very good and it was a pleasure to see and work with you again. No joke I really do like your swing and you are right about being very close to where I would want you. I thank you very much for sticking with it and learning. It is and will continue to pay off long into the future.
February 12, 2015
StevenButelPaul, I am struggling to understand how your swing achieves compression as it appears that there is very little forward shaft lean at impact. Please comment. Thanks.
February 13, 2015
Paul WilsonSteven,
You are going to achieve compression because you set up on a slight angle. Then you fire your lower body in the downswing. In this process of firing your lgs you angle even more at impact. This means you are closer to the ground than when you first started. If so the club is then descending as you hits the ball. This means impact is not the widest point of the arc and 1 reason I do not teach impact.
I talk in great detail about this in these tips:
Why The Shaft Is Leaning At Impact: https://ignitiongolf.com/shaft-leaning-impact/
How To Work On Forward Shaft Lean And The Full Release: https://ignitiongolf.com/shaft-lean-full-release
Also:
Cause and Effect – Trying To Take A Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/cause-and-effect-divot/
How To Take A Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-take-a-divot/
Divot: https://ignitiongolf.com/divot/