You are not used to standing taller plus you are still chicken winging it through impact. You need to let your arms extend more through and past impact. If you do you will hit it solid from the new setup. I go through this all the time. Think about it. If you are dent over more and you buckle your arms to hit the ball what is going to happen if you stand taller. You will top it or hit it thin because the arms and club are too short for the taller setup. Let them stretch out and keep doing it. Within about 20 balls you should get it.
This is vital. You watch this young guys nowadays they have poor distance control. That is because they are de-lofting the club too much and too inconsistently with this over tilted setup. Plus, they are starting to have all sorts of back issues. Tiger is not the only one. Why didn’t the best players of all time bend over this much if it was a better way to swing. They were all taller even Hogan although is arms were flat.
Look at the current top 10 and see what swing they are using:
Rory McIlroy
Adam Scott
Sergio Garcia
Henrik Stenson
Justin Rose
Bubba Watson
Jim Furyk
Jason Day
Matt Kuchar
Phil Mickelson
Kuchar is the lowest out of the bunch but even his hands are under his nose at setup with the driver.
Excellent reminder ,Paul ,for THE proper attitude at THE set up .
It’s true you see some Golf Pro’s with.an incorrect attitude ,in this crouched position ,and they Still pull off successfully their shot .
M’y first Golf Teacher told me ” Be proud in front of THE ball”
I gave him a lesson when he was 17 at Windermere Country Club in Orlando. 3 months later he won his first US Amateur. This is when he first started with Butch. I worked with him for about 2 hours. I could fix him no problem. Now it is just getting a hold of him again. Can’t figure out how to do that.
For the taller player, more bend at the knees, or wider stance, or do I pull the grip of the club up higher, this will pull the head of the club in closer to me.
Paul…great tip. I’d love you to do a comprehensive “feeling” tip/tips sometime that discusses your powerless arm approach as it pertains to getting your arms in the proper position from address to top of backswing. I think this is where many people have a disconnect or get confused with powerless arms.
With a tall set-up, and rather flat should turn as a result, it’s essentially to get the arms from their hanging position at address up to the appropriate vertical point in the backswing. With a tall setup and flatter shoulder rotation, there’s still a certain feeling (to me) of lifting the arms during the coil to get them “up” to the proper position where they can drop “powerlessly” during the uncoil. I think this is where alot of people trip up b/c they activate them to get them to the top and they keep them active on the way down too. Hope that makes sense, but I would love to hear your take.
I am doing a whole “feel” series of every part of the golf swing. I am 2 tips in. More to come.
You do need to lift the arms up to get the club in position if you have not done this before. If you don’t they will be too flat if you rotate. Once you work on it, they should be going up there on their own. This would be due to the right armpit coming untucked instead of being jammed against your side at the top. My arms just go pt there because I have done it for song long. I can’t believe you’re still feeling them lift up as long as you have done my technique.
Thanks Paul….I agree…I don’t feel the lift now though I had to be aware of that initially.. This was more a question for those just learning your method as I’ve had several friends ask for clarification when they ask about my swing and I wasn’t quite sure how to explain it. Take care!!
Gotcha. I would have thought people would see me swing and realize the arms have to go up and they would try to copy what I am doing but I have learned over the years to never assume anything. I have truly seen it all.
Paul ,
I still have difficulties to move my arms high enough in the backswing ,though I try hard to get there .
When I train at home in front of a mirror ,I lift high enough all right .
Then when I’m in front of he ball ,I tend to shorten the swing up and stay at shoulder height and even lower
Any tip to overcome my “mental “blocking ?
Some teachers say that a more vertical backswing is better because of the gravity effect going down .
JIM FURYK with his “inverted loop “is a perfect example of this .
What’s your own opinion on the subject ?
Yes, go way slower so you can feel it. Once you can say to yourself you feel it then hit it. DO NOT start down unless you can relay this information to yourself. If you keep doing your normal swing you will keep doing this swing. You need to do something different. So go slow and do it. Forget the ball and make the change. You would not be changing because you care about the shot.
I want the club going up. You will not see one long driver with a flat golf swing. I know you are not going to be a long driver but if a flat golf swing hit it further they would all be doing it and I have yet to see one long driver doing this swing.
Paul ,THE main reason ,I’ve found out .I don’t lift THE club enough ,comes from being too tense in THE muscles :core ,shoulders ,Arms ,wrists ,FINGERS . .Today ,I improved in raising THE hands higher ,by completely relaxing all muscles before THE takeaway .what benefits me THE most is having THE FINGERS very very loose .This enables a very effective whipping action of THE club .
Is it true That THE hands should be activated at THE Start of THE downswing : UP and DOWN with THE hands ?
this “feeling” series are really valuable and since I regularly follow your daily tips, I am amazed by your ability to give different perspectives on your core principles. As far as posture is concerned, like many high handicappers, I never really found myself very confortable with any position, so I probably unconsciously tried too many of them, hoping that one would magically fit… Now, I have a better understanding of why my current posture promotes flaws (the worst being shanking from time to time). As you said in one of your tips “never think you get it”, so I will focus on this one as hard as I can.
Paul ,Top of THE backswing :are THE very upright left arm positions of JACK NICKLAUS and JIM FURYK good examples to émulate or not ?
I tended untill now to copy THE BEN HOGAN backswing ,which is flat ,but what has happened ,as I described to you ,was a too low position of THE Arms at the ” Top ” of my backswing !
I will follow your advice given above ,but if I slow THE backswing ,THE downswing Will slow down also ,due to THE 3/1 ratio ,therefore loss of speed !!!
How can you argue with the best golfer of all time and the most consistent golfer of all time. I prefer it to be a little lower but to me up is good.
If you copy a Hogan back swing you will hit it nowhere. I tried this and I hit it nowhere. Once you get this you will see your distance dramatically increase. Forget ratios and all the timing stuff right now. Just make the change.
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22 Responses to “Cause and Effect – Setting Up Too Low”
September 7, 2014
LouisBondPaul when I set up taller I hit alot of thin or topped shots. What am I doing wrong?
Louis
September 8, 2014
Paul WilsonLouis,
You are not used to standing taller plus you are still chicken winging it through impact. You need to let your arms extend more through and past impact. If you do you will hit it solid from the new setup. I go through this all the time. Think about it. If you are dent over more and you buckle your arms to hit the ball what is going to happen if you stand taller. You will top it or hit it thin because the arms and club are too short for the taller setup. Let them stretch out and keep doing it. Within about 20 balls you should get it.
September 7, 2014
ERICTRUBACSGreat, Great tip!! I have never heard the setup posture explained in this manner.
Thanks!
Eric
September 8, 2014
Paul WilsonEric,
This is vital. You watch this young guys nowadays they have poor distance control. That is because they are de-lofting the club too much and too inconsistently with this over tilted setup. Plus, they are starting to have all sorts of back issues. Tiger is not the only one. Why didn’t the best players of all time bend over this much if it was a better way to swing. They were all taller even Hogan although is arms were flat.
Look at the current top 10 and see what swing they are using:
Rory McIlroy
Adam Scott
Sergio Garcia
Henrik Stenson
Justin Rose
Bubba Watson
Jim Furyk
Jason Day
Matt Kuchar
Phil Mickelson
Kuchar is the lowest out of the bunch but even his hands are under his nose at setup with the driver.
Stay tall. Coil and uncoil.
September 8, 2014
RaymondCHASTELExcellent reminder ,Paul ,for THE proper attitude at THE set up .
It’s true you see some Golf Pro’s with.an incorrect attitude ,in this crouched position ,and they Still pull off successfully their shot .
M’y first Golf Teacher told me ” Be proud in front of THE ball”
September 8, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Pros can hit any shot because they have hit tons of balls and they can play. How good are they overall.
Here are the current top 10 tour players.
Rory McIlroy
Adam Scott
Sergio Garcia
Henrik Stenson
Justin Rose
Bubba Watson
Jim Furyk
Jason Day
Matt Kuchar
Phil Mickelson
The lowest one is Kuchar and even he has his hands under his nose at setup. He is more Hoganesque. Hogan set up tall even with a flat swing.
September 9, 2014
BryanRhoadesGosh…if only Tiger would let you teach him…lol. May save his back too. He used to look like these guys. Garcia has a very tall setup.
September 9, 2014
Paul WilsonBryan,
I gave him a lesson when he was 17 at Windermere Country Club in Orlando. 3 months later he won his first US Amateur. This is when he first started with Butch. I worked with him for about 2 hours. I could fix him no problem. Now it is just getting a hold of him again. Can’t figure out how to do that.
September 8, 2014
mikemooneyPaul,
For the taller player, more bend at the knees, or wider stance, or do I pull the grip of the club up higher, this will pull the head of the club in closer to me.
September 9, 2014
Paul WilsonMike,
Feel like you are sitting down if you are taller. I have taught many tall players without an issue.
Taller players need longer clubs and the lie angle bumped up to make this happen.
You do not need a wider stance.
You can see Mike Dobbyn setting up taller when I was teaching him. He was 6’8″ 280lbs at the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKBX_U2–sY
September 8, 2014
BryanRhoadesPaul…great tip. I’d love you to do a comprehensive “feeling” tip/tips sometime that discusses your powerless arm approach as it pertains to getting your arms in the proper position from address to top of backswing. I think this is where many people have a disconnect or get confused with powerless arms.
With a tall set-up, and rather flat should turn as a result, it’s essentially to get the arms from their hanging position at address up to the appropriate vertical point in the backswing. With a tall setup and flatter shoulder rotation, there’s still a certain feeling (to me) of lifting the arms during the coil to get them “up” to the proper position where they can drop “powerlessly” during the uncoil. I think this is where alot of people trip up b/c they activate them to get them to the top and they keep them active on the way down too. Hope that makes sense, but I would love to hear your take.
Thanks!!!
Bryan
September 9, 2014
Paul WilsonBryan,
I am doing a whole “feel” series of every part of the golf swing. I am 2 tips in. More to come.
You do need to lift the arms up to get the club in position if you have not done this before. If you don’t they will be too flat if you rotate. Once you work on it, they should be going up there on their own. This would be due to the right armpit coming untucked instead of being jammed against your side at the top. My arms just go pt there because I have done it for song long. I can’t believe you’re still feeling them lift up as long as you have done my technique.
September 9, 2014
BryanRhoadesThanks Paul….I agree…I don’t feel the lift now though I had to be aware of that initially.. This was more a question for those just learning your method as I’ve had several friends ask for clarification when they ask about my swing and I wasn’t quite sure how to explain it. Take care!!
September 9, 2014
Paul WilsonBryan,
Gotcha. I would have thought people would see me swing and realize the arms have to go up and they would try to copy what I am doing but I have learned over the years to never assume anything. I have truly seen it all.
September 9, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,
I still have difficulties to move my arms high enough in the backswing ,though I try hard to get there .
When I train at home in front of a mirror ,I lift high enough all right .
Then when I’m in front of he ball ,I tend to shorten the swing up and stay at shoulder height and even lower
Any tip to overcome my “mental “blocking ?
Some teachers say that a more vertical backswing is better because of the gravity effect going down .
JIM FURYK with his “inverted loop “is a perfect example of this .
What’s your own opinion on the subject ?
September 9, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Yes, go way slower so you can feel it. Once you can say to yourself you feel it then hit it. DO NOT start down unless you can relay this information to yourself. If you keep doing your normal swing you will keep doing this swing. You need to do something different. So go slow and do it. Forget the ball and make the change. You would not be changing because you care about the shot.
I want the club going up. You will not see one long driver with a flat golf swing. I know you are not going to be a long driver but if a flat golf swing hit it further they would all be doing it and I have yet to see one long driver doing this swing.
September 10, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,THE main reason ,I’ve found out .I don’t lift THE club enough ,comes from being too tense in THE muscles :core ,shoulders ,Arms ,wrists ,FINGERS . .Today ,I improved in raising THE hands higher ,by completely relaxing all muscles before THE takeaway .what benefits me THE most is having THE FINGERS very very loose .This enables a very effective whipping action of THE club .
Is it true That THE hands should be activated at THE Start of THE downswing : UP and DOWN with THE hands ?
September 10, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
I want you to do nothing with them to halway back. Then the club goes up.
Halfway Back: https://ignitiongolf.com/halfway-back/
DRILL: Half back and up: https://ignitiongolf.com/half-back-and-up/
Shake Hands at Halfway Back?: https://ignitiongolf.com/shake-hands-halfway-back/
September 10, 2014
PierreBourgeoisPaul,
this “feeling” series are really valuable and since I regularly follow your daily tips, I am amazed by your ability to give different perspectives on your core principles. As far as posture is concerned, like many high handicappers, I never really found myself very confortable with any position, so I probably unconsciously tried too many of them, hoping that one would magically fit… Now, I have a better understanding of why my current posture promotes flaws (the worst being shanking from time to time). As you said in one of your tips “never think you get it”, so I will focus on this one as hard as I can.
September 10, 2014
Paul WilsonPierre,
Glad you like the tips. Thanks for the feedback.
When I first stated this I thought I would be done after about 30 tips. Here I am at 700 and still have a list of hundreds more.
Setting up too low can definitely cause shanks. Stay tall and rotate. This way you will not get too much of your body mass ahead of your toe line.
September 10, 2014
RaymondCHASTELPaul ,Top of THE backswing :are THE very upright left arm positions of JACK NICKLAUS and JIM FURYK good examples to émulate or not ?
I tended untill now to copy THE BEN HOGAN backswing ,which is flat ,but what has happened ,as I described to you ,was a too low position of THE Arms at the ” Top ” of my backswing !
I will follow your advice given above ,but if I slow THE backswing ,THE downswing Will slow down also ,due to THE 3/1 ratio ,therefore loss of speed !!!
September 10, 2014
Paul WilsonRaymond,
How can you argue with the best golfer of all time and the most consistent golfer of all time. I prefer it to be a little lower but to me up is good.
If you copy a Hogan back swing you will hit it nowhere. I tried this and I hit it nowhere. Once you get this you will see your distance dramatically increase. Forget ratios and all the timing stuff right now. Just make the change.