Hi Paul. Many years ago I took some group lessons at Grand Cypress in Florida. The teacher pointed out and showed me in videos, that I looked like my address position when striking the ball, my feet flat on the ground. Unfortunately, he did not clarify why this was happening and stress the need to initiate the downswing by rotating the right hip in a circular motion, and getting the right, back foot, off the ground before impact. Until now, I’ve been confused about the sequence of things and frustrated with short irons, in particular, that always went to the left of the target. Although the rotation and touching of the knees is somewhat unnatural and harder to do than it seems, at least I finally know what I should be doing.
Understanding it is half the battle. Once you know what to do, why you need to do it and how to do it you just have to repeat it until you master it. Glad you get it and are working towards mastering it. Keep at it.
on these last couple of drills, try using a one iron. Because of the added length, wider arc, it will help you develop a good tempo, provide feedback,. If you can master this, it will make all the other clubs much easier. works for me!
haha, I knew you would say that. It does not mean that practicing with one does not have merit. I will agree though, not for everybody and more than likely most would find it hard to hit. You can still find some in great shape at the veterans stores, swap meets, e.t.c. I got mine on ebay for $9.00 on a whim, as it would fill out my set of Hogan Edge’s. My first set of clubs had both a 1 and 2 iron, as well as 1,2,3.4 woods (Bobby Jones made by Spaulding). I think I read somewhere, that Davis Love III was the last to use a 1 iron on tour, but I could be mistaken.
G’day Paul,
Nice instruction, I like that you keep drumming in your message, the overhead view was a help. I am not quite getting the sensation of the heavy club or, getting the club parallel with my ears at the finish. As I say “Not Quite” getting it. On the days when I get the lower body working properly, I get some nice results. In the nets I play some wonderful shots, in the real world things can be inconsistent.
My question today is because I have some arthritis in my toes I am looking for real comfortable shoes. You would be on your feet a fair bit each day, so what do you put on your ‘plates of meat’ – feet?
If you are not getting this feeling you are too tight. If the club is not going exactly between the ears you need to be doing practice swings towards a mirror setting it there. As you keep doing this you get used to it. Then it will go there on its own.
I wear Ecco shoes. These are great shoes. My feet never hurt. Give them a try. Also, get some of this immediately:
Thanks Paul,
I live in Australia, so some products are not available here. I’m pretty sure Ecco shoes are in retail stores here. We don’t have anything like Walmart, I’ll look at the ingredients for this Osteobiflex, our Chemists Warehouse will probably have something similar.
Yes, I’m working on the point A to point B. Your latest tip about getting to the top then returning the belt buckle back to the ball worked most of the time in yesterdays round.
Timing seems to be critical with the hips turning as your left arm is parallel and you have completed cocking your wrist. How much hesitation is there between beginning the downward motion of the arms after reaching dead top of the swing and after you begin the hip turn. I just seem to be missing the proper timing of the motion. I’ll look back at some of the earlier tips to see if I missed something.
This hesitation is occurring because you are not trying to hit it with your arms. As the body turns your arms are pulled down because they are connected to one another. So you are not timing anything. You are waiting for the body rotation to move the arms down. To get it you need to be working on not hitting anything knowing full well the arms will come down if you turn your body.
This will give you the understanding of what happens when you take it back fast. So g back slow. As you near the top you should already be ready to fire the lower body the other way. I am waiting to feel the stretch in the left lat that is created when I coil. Once I feel it, I fire the lower. This means I am never guessing on when to go the other way. Also, I am never thinking of hitting anything. So I coil then I uncoil. The arms are going along for the ride.
Going slow on the way back allows you to keep the arms turned off going back.
They say I stopped trying to hit or help the shot in any way with my arms was the day I got my swing back and never hit it better. Stay focused. Keep trying to turn the arms off and keep trying to understand exactly what you should thinking about and doing. If we are on the same page you can do it. If you are thinking about something I am not it will be tough to do it right.
I like your thought on coiling til you feel your left lat stretch, I tried this today and it helped a lot. Have you mentioned this before? I don’t ever remember you saying this, this is a good thought on how far to coil and keep your arms from becoming disconnected. Thanks for all the work you do on these tips!
I always mention this because it is something that is consistent. This and the forces acting on the mass are things that will repeat 100% of the time so why not base your swing on it.
Paul
In the overhead view session, you mentioned in passing that the coil going back should be 45 degrees, that is, the belt buckle points 45 going back and ends up at 45 as you hit the ball. I have had trouble feeling the tightness as I go back so is my visual of a 45 degree turn going back a correct thought to know how far to coil.
Mike
You are coiling the shoulders back upwards of 90 degrees. This coil of the shoulders is moving the lower body into position (hips 45 degrees, knees 22.5). When people don’t feel the stretch they are usually moving the lower body too much. So feel like you are more stable with the lower body. Then focus on turning the shoulders back to upwards of 90 degrees. As you do, you should feel the torque. When you do this make sure you load the weight on the back instep as you hit the top.
If you are thinking of this rotation of the lower body to 45 degrees you will move the hips to do so. The thing is, the shoulders move the most at 90 degrees. They cannot get to 90 degrees unless the hips move 45. So if you move the shoulders the hips will move perfectly into position. Again, I think you are moving the lower too much. Tighten it up and you should feel it.
Thanks Paul,
This is the area in my swing that I was struggling to accomplish .
The lower body triggering the start of my downswing.
I’m not going to detail all the results from different lower body triggers, but the buckle back to ball , arms Pharrell , then 45 forward of ball on contact works to get me turning, not slide or lift.
Many thanks, best Ed Billings
Whatever gets your hips moving is good. Just realize that after you fire you get to the touch the legs positions. Then every night you need to be doing this drill:
Could you please refer me to a video that gives this same type of description to the front (left) knee during the downswing. I struggle with knee pain as I try to lock that front knee in the process of rotation. I have read that to prevent this pain it would be better to keep some flex in that knee. I would appreciate hearing your opinion on this. Thanks.
Gerrie K
There isn’t a video specifically on keeping it bent. People never have pain in this kneed when they do it right. The only time they would ever have pain is doing it wrong or way too hard. I have taught tens of thousands of people and many with bad knees and I have a torn left knee and I never have an issue. I would think you are doing it too hard.
So do it slower and get used to it or keep it a little bent and focus on turning your hips as the trigger. If you turn your hips the knee will straighten but it will probably allow you to keep it a little flexed.
Hi Paul, in this tip you mention during practice swings above the ground, don’t flatten the swing…that’s what I do very badly in my swing! I have your body swing lessons and I’m doing great with lower body rotation, follow through positions, and loose wrists, but I have very poor and inconsistent contact with the ball and having the club face square at impact still. It’s very noticeable how flat my backswing is in videos- I hit balls in an indoor golf simulator a lot and I am constantly contacting the club on the back wall of the simulator booth because of how flat my back swing is, what can I be thinking about or doing to have my club on a proper swing plane?
In The Body Swing you would have to follow position 4 the hinge. In no way would you be able to do this with a super flat golf swing. Also, watch tonight’s tip. This will explain exactly what you need to be doing. Here it is again:
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27 Responses to “Overhead View Of The Back Knee Through Impact”
August 22, 2012
NikosPlatissteam not available
August 22, 2012
Paul WilsonThanks for pointing that out. It is working now. Please watch it here: https://ignitiongolf.com/back-knee-impact/
November 23, 2013
RonCalabreseHi Paul. Many years ago I took some group lessons at Grand Cypress in Florida. The teacher pointed out and showed me in videos, that I looked like my address position when striking the ball, my feet flat on the ground. Unfortunately, he did not clarify why this was happening and stress the need to initiate the downswing by rotating the right hip in a circular motion, and getting the right, back foot, off the ground before impact. Until now, I’ve been confused about the sequence of things and frustrated with short irons, in particular, that always went to the left of the target. Although the rotation and touching of the knees is somewhat unnatural and harder to do than it seems, at least I finally know what I should be doing.
Thanks, Ron
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonRon,
Understanding it is half the battle. Once you know what to do, why you need to do it and how to do it you just have to repeat it until you master it. Glad you get it and are working towards mastering it. Keep at it.
November 23, 2013
JAMESHUNTon these last couple of drills, try using a one iron. Because of the added length, wider arc, it will help you develop a good tempo, provide feedback,. If you can master this, it will make all the other clubs much easier. works for me!
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonJim,
Problem is, I don’t think anyone has even seen a 1 iron in 15 years.
November 25, 2013
JAMESHUNThaha, I knew you would say that. It does not mean that practicing with one does not have merit. I will agree though, not for everybody and more than likely most would find it hard to hit. You can still find some in great shape at the veterans stores, swap meets, e.t.c. I got mine on ebay for $9.00 on a whim, as it would fill out my set of Hogan Edge’s. My first set of clubs had both a 1 and 2 iron, as well as 1,2,3.4 woods (Bobby Jones made by Spaulding). I think I read somewhere, that Davis Love III was the last to use a 1 iron on tour, but I could be mistaken.
November 24, 2013
BenG’day Paul,
Nice instruction, I like that you keep drumming in your message, the overhead view was a help. I am not quite getting the sensation of the heavy club or, getting the club parallel with my ears at the finish. As I say “Not Quite” getting it. On the days when I get the lower body working properly, I get some nice results. In the nets I play some wonderful shots, in the real world things can be inconsistent.
My question today is because I have some arthritis in my toes I am looking for real comfortable shoes. You would be on your feet a fair bit each day, so what do you put on your ‘plates of meat’ – feet?
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonBen,
Glad you like it. Thanks.
If you are not getting this feeling you are too tight. If the club is not going exactly between the ears you need to be doing practice swings towards a mirror setting it there. As you keep doing this you get used to it. Then it will go there on its own.
I wear Ecco shoes. These are great shoes. My feet never hurt. Give them a try. Also, get some of this immediately:
http://www.osteobiflex.com/PRODUCT/NUTRAJOINT-DRINK-MIX (Only this one though none of the others.) You can get it at Walmart.
November 25, 2013
BenThanks Paul,
I live in Australia, so some products are not available here. I’m pretty sure Ecco shoes are in retail stores here. We don’t have anything like Walmart, I’ll look at the ingredients for this Osteobiflex, our Chemists Warehouse will probably have something similar.
Yes, I’m working on the point A to point B. Your latest tip about getting to the top then returning the belt buckle back to the ball worked most of the time in yesterdays round.
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonBen,
It is the Knox Gelatin in the Osteo Biflex that you need. I’m sure you can order it and have it shipped there.
I would even think someone would ship it to you.
November 24, 2013
RaymondCHASTELExcellent clarification of the lower body move .I used to practise some time ago with a big ball between the knees (Basketball or m
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonRaymond,
Yes, you do not have to purposely separate the knees. In motion turning the other way the gap will widen on its own.
Do not try to move in 2 directions at once. This will be futile. Who does move in 2 directions? Long drivers. You are not a long driver.
Watch:
Should You Be Moving 2 Directions At Once?: https://ignitiongolf.com/2-directions/
November 24, 2013
HenryTiming seems to be critical with the hips turning as your left arm is parallel and you have completed cocking your wrist. How much hesitation is there between beginning the downward motion of the arms after reaching dead top of the swing and after you begin the hip turn. I just seem to be missing the proper timing of the motion. I’ll look back at some of the earlier tips to see if I missed something.
November 25, 2013
Paul WilsonHenry,
This hesitation is occurring because you are not trying to hit it with your arms. As the body turns your arms are pulled down because they are connected to one another. So you are not timing anything. You are waiting for the body rotation to move the arms down. To get it you need to be working on not hitting anything knowing full well the arms will come down if you turn your body.
Try this:
DRILL: Flip Club: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-flip-club
This will give you the understanding of what happens when you take it back fast. So g back slow. As you near the top you should already be ready to fire the lower body the other way. I am waiting to feel the stretch in the left lat that is created when I coil. Once I feel it, I fire the lower. This means I am never guessing on when to go the other way. Also, I am never thinking of hitting anything. So I coil then I uncoil. The arms are going along for the ride.
Going slow on the way back allows you to keep the arms turned off going back.
Watch:
DRILL: Belt Buckle Clubhead: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-belt-buckle-clubhead
DRILL: Move Hips: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-hips-moving/
Also:
Flatten Plane 1: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane
Flatten Plane 2: https://ignitiongolf.com/downswing-flatten-plane-2
They say I stopped trying to hit or help the shot in any way with my arms was the day I got my swing back and never hit it better. Stay focused. Keep trying to turn the arms off and keep trying to understand exactly what you should thinking about and doing. If we are on the same page you can do it. If you are thinking about something I am not it will be tough to do it right.
November 26, 2013
GeorgeNordhaugPaul,
I like your thought on coiling til you feel your left lat stretch, I tried this today and it helped a lot. Have you mentioned this before? I don’t ever remember you saying this, this is a good thought on how far to coil and keep your arms from becoming disconnected. Thanks for all the work you do on these tips!
November 27, 2013
Paul WilsonGeorge,
I always mention this because it is something that is consistent. This and the forces acting on the mass are things that will repeat 100% of the time so why not base your swing on it.
Watch:
Coiling: https://ignitiongolf.com/learn-coil-backswing
Shoulders in downswing: https://ignitiongolf.com/shoulders-downswing
December 2, 2013
MikeSwiontekPaul
In the overhead view session, you mentioned in passing that the coil going back should be 45 degrees, that is, the belt buckle points 45 going back and ends up at 45 as you hit the ball. I have had trouble feeling the tightness as I go back so is my visual of a 45 degree turn going back a correct thought to know how far to coil.
Mike
December 3, 2013
Paul WilsonMike,
You are coiling the shoulders back upwards of 90 degrees. This coil of the shoulders is moving the lower body into position (hips 45 degrees, knees 22.5). When people don’t feel the stretch they are usually moving the lower body too much. So feel like you are more stable with the lower body. Then focus on turning the shoulders back to upwards of 90 degrees. As you do, you should feel the torque. When you do this make sure you load the weight on the back instep as you hit the top.
If you are thinking of this rotation of the lower body to 45 degrees you will move the hips to do so. The thing is, the shoulders move the most at 90 degrees. They cannot get to 90 degrees unless the hips move 45. So if you move the shoulders the hips will move perfectly into position. Again, I think you are moving the lower too much. Tighten it up and you should feel it.
Watch:
How To Stabilize The Lower Body In The Backswing (belt buckle at ball): https://ignitiongolf.com/stabilize-lower-body/
Flex Back Knee: https://ignitiongolf.com/backswing-back-knee
Coiling: https://ignitiongolf.com/learn-coil-backswing
Also do this drill:
DRILL: Helicopter: https://ignitiongolf.com/important-warm-drill
June 14, 2018
EdwardBillingsThanks Paul,
This is the area in my swing that I was struggling to accomplish .
The lower body triggering the start of my downswing.
I’m not going to detail all the results from different lower body triggers, but the buckle back to ball , arms Pharrell , then 45 forward of ball on contact works to get me turning, not slide or lift.
Many thanks, best Ed Billings
June 15, 2018
Paul WilsonEd,
Whatever gets your hips moving is good. Just realize that after you fire you get to the touch the legs positions. Then every night you need to be doing this drill:
DRILL: Listen to Club Swinging: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-listen-to-club/
June 14, 2018
wkalaidjianCould you please refer me to a video that gives this same type of description to the front (left) knee during the downswing. I struggle with knee pain as I try to lock that front knee in the process of rotation. I have read that to prevent this pain it would be better to keep some flex in that knee. I would appreciate hearing your opinion on this. Thanks.
Gerrie K
June 17, 2018
Paul WilsonGerrie,
There isn’t a video specifically on keeping it bent. People never have pain in this kneed when they do it right. The only time they would ever have pain is doing it wrong or way too hard. I have taught tens of thousands of people and many with bad knees and I have a torn left knee and I never have an issue. I would think you are doing it too hard.
So do it slower and get used to it or keep it a little bent and focus on turning your hips as the trigger. If you turn your hips the knee will straighten but it will probably allow you to keep it a little flexed.
June 14, 2018
KevinMcKinneyHi Paul, in this tip you mention during practice swings above the ground, don’t flatten the swing…that’s what I do very badly in my swing! I have your body swing lessons and I’m doing great with lower body rotation, follow through positions, and loose wrists, but I have very poor and inconsistent contact with the ball and having the club face square at impact still. It’s very noticeable how flat my backswing is in videos- I hit balls in an indoor golf simulator a lot and I am constantly contacting the club on the back wall of the simulator booth because of how flat my back swing is, what can I be thinking about or doing to have my club on a proper swing plane?
June 17, 2018
Paul WilsonKevin,
In The Body Swing you would have to follow position 4 the hinge. In no way would you be able to do this with a super flat golf swing. Also, watch tonight’s tip. This will explain exactly what you need to be doing. Here it is again:
Lead Arm Rides Up: https://ignitiongolf.com/lead-arm-rides-up/
Also:
Back Elbow Position At The Top (grapefruit): https://ignitiongolf.com/back-elbow-position-top/
June 20, 2018
RoyThanks Paul,
Great tip on starting the down swing. I tend to stop my hip turn post impact. any suggestions.
Roy
June 20, 2018
Paul WilsonRoy,
Yes, do my touch the legs position. You just admitted you are not doing it yet this it the first position I teach.
Legs Touching: https://ignitiongolf.com/touch-knees
Exactly How To Do Touch The Legs Position: https://ignitiongolf.com/how-to-touch-the-legs-position/
It’s a Turn Not A Jump: https://ignitiongolf.com/turn-not-jump/
Lean On Club to Touch Legs: https://ignitiongolf.com/drill-lean-on-club
It’s Like A Throwing Motion: https://ignitiongolf.com/like-throwing-motion/
So lots of practice swings at home until you can do it consistently. This is the motor to your swing.